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Certified Porsche Rebuilt S Engine Worth....

Just as the title says...I want to know how much do you all think my car would be worth after it is finished having its engine rebuilt at the dealership. People on this forum whom may have followed the tragic ups and downs of my ordeal of ownership on this car. Long story short! After being taking for a ride by two!! mechanics here in Polk County I decided to bite the bullet and have the dealership rebuild my engine, I figured they made it so they are the best option to put it back together. It just dawned on me the other day that I was going to have a PORSCHE certified rebuilt car when they are done....and guess what having the engine taken care of by them.....CHEAPER than having this guy do it where I was already taken for 7 grand which I will be dealing with him real soon....however that's not the point. It's cheaper than Lindsey, Broadfoot and all these other guys whom claim to be able to make these engines do amazing things and the people I've mention above are amongst them for the right price but still they are not Porsche......see the pictures below and tell me what you think? The car has been there three weeks already and so far spending less than 6k. The pictures show where they are at now.....at the time when I took the pictures they said they anticipate driving the car next week. And the last guy had my car for 4.5years...go figure!!!






Last edited by PHillary; 09-29-2018 at 07:06 AM..
Old 09-29-2018, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PHillary View Post
...I was going to have a PORSCHE certified rebuilt car when they are done...
Nothing wrong with getting this done at the dealership if you just want a stock rebuilt engine, you are prepared to use and pay for genuine Porsche parts, they have someone who has experience in these engines and they are prepared to do it. Most dealerships don’t have the experience and/or are not prepared to do the work.

You’ll get a Porsche two-year warranty on replaced parts and the work carried out but there is no such thing as a “Porsche certified rebuilt car”. Also, if any parts on your engine were reused in the build, and they fail, the warranty doesn’t apply.

Thing about using specialists like Broadfoot, Lindsey, MM, etc is that they have huge experience in these engines and know the tips and tricks to improve reliability while doing a build. They also have developed, or have access to, proven aftermarket parts that are better than the original Porsche parts that the engine came with. Porsche dealerships cannot use these parts because they are not Porsche parts.

It definately adds value to your car having a freshly rebuilt engine though I don’t think it makes a difference who rebuilt it as long as it was done professionally by a shop with a good reputation.

Please post a picture of the engine when it’s done.
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Last edited by 9FF; 09-29-2018 at 08:37 AM..
Old 09-29-2018, 08:34 AM
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My guess is it adds value depending on the condition of the rest of the car and its overall mileage.

For example, a perfect low mileage car would bring top dollar. On the other hand, a high mileage car (say +100K miles) that needs a suspension rebuild, has a high mileage clutch, and rotors that need replacing at the next brake pad replacement will see minimal bump in overall worth.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:10 AM
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It makes it worth more to me...looking forward to your review.

GHEN
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:22 AM
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Yeah....this is a weird thing for me too....you see. One of the reasons I brought it to them was because it was half ass worked on by another shop...what a mess. I had the guy sleeve and re-hone the engine, then we/he added J.E. forged pistons....I have Web Racing cams...I have the Lindsey underdrive pulleys...and other little goodies that will make a unique build.....Warranty!!! never questioned it....hopefully the aftermarket parts don't fail ever....and if they did, I would take it right back to them as it seems they are cheaper than anyone else around here specializing in these cars and I know I will get the work done right. oh! I am sure they will have to add all of the missing bolts sensors and what-nots to it. Not sure if it's the bad luck with other shops that made them decide to take it on or the love they have for their own cars but it's there being worked on and I anticipate it starting and running like a dream when they are done......Just was wondering if I could get more money for it if I decided to sell after they are done....I am a dad you know and it's family first above all....if you are in the dad's club.....The car itself is pretty bad ass....I have a refurbished/rebuilt DME in car....the Lindsey Ultra engine and tranny mounts...Stage 2 dual friction clutch....short shifter...ground control coilovers on all 4 with top and lower sturt braces and RS Barn mono blocks...new cream to match interior adjustable racing seats....a custom Wilwood big brake kit with stainless lines of course....931 turbo hood....I have a after market body kit with a 968 carbon fiber spoiler and 951 look alike front end. I have Victor Equipment aftermarket 18" black and silver lipped Lemans wheels...but wheels are up for debate depending on what you like...I have a double din head unit with bluetooth, XM, backup camera and navigation, 18 speakers total in all of the factory locations except for two door tweeters in the doors on each side...and two 12's in the hatch area that can be removed at any time but I stuffed "18 speakers" in the car and you can barely tell....all pioneer too, the whole system. The rest of the car.....well its an 87 944.... the buttons and knobs are all faded...I need to recondition/buy a new hatch carpet...it could benefit from the 968 door mirrors and handles, new weatherstripping and a new paint.....and I bet I will look around it and there will be always something that could be done to make it just a tad bit better.

Last edited by PHillary; 09-30-2018 at 08:53 AM..
Old 09-29-2018, 10:25 AM
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Here are some pictures of the interior....will need to take more recent ones...of the double din in the dashboard...I only have a video of the install when I was putting most of it back together....anyone know how to post a video? anyways....I forgot to mention I added Xenon headlights and daytime running lights with turning signals to the front end....boy do I love this car!




Old 09-30-2018, 09:15 AM
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Anybody can make these...1/4" MDF board...trace hatch carpet on to it....cut starter holes...jig saw the rest...and Bam! Speaker pods for the rear hatch area....less than 30 bucks spent...





I ended up putting 5.5s where the tweeters are in the picture and put the tweeters behind the passenger & driver seats....now all I have to do is add some sound deadening in the rear pocket areas for a little better sound quality..oh yeah!
Old 09-30-2018, 10:04 PM
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"I had the guy sleeve and re-hone the engine"

Here's a great write up from the founder of Pelican

Alusil

Alusil*as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (Al17Si4CuMg or A390) contains approximately 78% aluminium and 17% silicon. This alloy was created in 1927 by Schweizer & Fehrenbach of Baden-Baden Germany and further developed by Kolbenschmidt.



Nikasil vs Alusil Cylinders - In 1973 Porsche introduced a new type of cylinder used on the 911 2.7 Carrera RS. Engineered by German manufacturer Mahle, Nikasil cylinders are manufactured out of a dense, aluminum alloy that is centrifugally cast in a mold. The cylinder bore is then electroplated with a very thin layer of nickel-silicon carbide. Originally designed and used on the venerable 1971 917, these cylinders provide several unique advantages over the older-style ones. The primary advantage is that the micro-thin layer is extremely durable, and allows for thinner cylinder wall thickness as a result. As a result, the piston bores can be enlarged without changing the original cylinder head stud bolt pattern. In addition, the reduced friction along the cylinder walls combined with the surface properties of the nickel-silicon coating creates a tighter seal against the cylinder. The result is a slight increase in overall horsepower, due to the increased efficiency. These Nikasil cylinders are the most durable of any of the production cylinders and are highly sought after for engine rebuilds. These cylinders can be retrofitted to the earlier cars, however, you will need to install the updated piston squirters in to your early case (1970 and earlier) if it doesn’t already have them. The piston squirters lower the piston crown temperatures so that you can run the close clearances used by Nikasil or Alusil pistons and cylinders. It’s also important to note that Mahle makes Nikasil pistons and cylinders for 2.2L and 2.4L engines.

In 1974, Porsche introduced the Alusil cylinders, manufactured by Kolbenschmidt. The Alusil cylinders were primarily used as a less-expensive alternative to the Nikasil cylinders. These cylinders are manufactured out of a special 390 eutectic aluminum silicon alloy, and are used with a special iron-plated, ferrocoat piston. Like the Nikasil cylinders, they are plated with a special coating on inside bore. This coating is electrically etched to leave a microscopic layer of silicon particles exposed on the cylinder wall. The iron-plated piston and the silicon-plated cylinder walls operated together to create a durable dual-surface. In addition, the Alusil cylinders have the same thin-wall construction of the Nikasil cylinders, meaning that they too can maintain the same head-stud spacing pattern.

So what are the main differences between all of the available pistons and cylinders? The early biral cylinders can be honed and reused just like other cast-iron cylinders on non-Porsche cars. Starting in 1974, Porsche mixed and matched the Alusil and Nikasil sets, so it’s really the luck of the draw as to which set you have in your car. For the most part, Porsche used mostly Alusil in the 2.7L and 3.0L engines because of the reduced cost of production. The Alusil cylinders, unfortunately, cannot be honed. The honing process destroys the etching layer, and renders them useless. In fact, a general rule of thumb is that the Alusil cylinders are a one-time-use product, and should not be used again if the engine is rebuilt.

Alusil cylinders cannot be reliably reringed. This indeed is a common misconception in some Porsche circles. There are no replacement rings available that are specifically designed for the Alusil cylinders. Of course, throwing out your current pistons and cylinders can lead to the large expense of new ones, so a lot of people reuse them anyway. In some cases, the new set of rings seat fine, and they indeed can be reused successfully. However, you cannot hone these cylinders, nor predict whether the rings will indeed seat properly. The correct action to take is to purchase new pistons and cylinders, otherwise you may be tearing down your engine again in less than a mere 1000 miles. These Alusil cylinders typically have a ‘KS’ Kolbenschmidt logo cast into their base, although for a time, Mahle also made Alusil cylinders. The coating on the Alusil cylinders is non magnetic, so you should be able to tell the difference with a simple refrigerator magnet.

If you are tearing apart your engine for reasons other than worn out rings or valve guides, then you might opt to reuse your Alusil cylinders. This would be the case, for example, if you were tearing down your engine to replace broken or pulled head studs. If this is the case, I would recommend that you take your pistons and cylinders off of the engine, put them high up on a shelf, and don’t touch them until you are ready to reassemble. Don’t pull the pistons out of the cylinders and don’t dislodge or disturb the rings. Of course, you are taking a risk here that you will have worn rings in the near future. However, if your engine is a 3.0L, with 100K on the odometer, then there is a good chance that you can get 100,000 additional miles or more out of your set of rings, cylinders and pistons. I don’t necessarily recommend playing the odds like this, but if you’re rebuilding a good running engine with excellent leak-down numbers for the purpose of replacing head studs or some other non-wear problem, then it might be a good bet.

The Nikasil cylinders can indeed be honed and reused. They typically have a ‘MAHLE’ stamp on the lower side of the cylinder. The nickel-carbide surface needs to be lightly honed with a special silica impregnated tool, or what is commonly known as a grape or flex hone. The surface properties are too hard for normal tool steel honing machines. The Nikasil coating will be ever so slightly magnetic when you place a magnet next to it. The honing process is performed using special tools – either a specific tool designed to hone the cylinders, or a grape hone. Either way, you should only have an expert familiar with the Nikasil cylinders perform the honing process.

-Wayne

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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series*•*101 Projects for Your Porsche 911*•*How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines*•*101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman*•*101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:59 AM
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Inside engine pictures

Thank you, Swennydawg and Wayne...as always he has an awesome tid-bit of information available....all I can do is hope that he did what he was supposed to do right..... or right enough for that matter....when I first took it to him he had this Rockstar like confidence about himself that just made me believe everything he said about these cars in general the "944" I thought at last I had found my personal 944 guru mechanic in this little rural know nothing about nothing town I live in, this guy must have been heaven sent just to deal with me...he even talked about racing his "Pink Porsches" at Sebring. I have some pictures of the engine when he had it apart....it all looks good but you will never know until they finally start it up, that's the part I'm really scared of, too many hands in the pot thing you know???.





Last edited by PHillary; 10-01-2018 at 09:31 AM..
Old 10-01-2018, 07:53 AM
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Just realized it was a "s" engine ... oooopsssss !
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Last edited by wildcat077; 10-01-2018 at 08:56 AM..
Old 10-01-2018, 08:51 AM
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Finally Home! What do you all think?

Here are some pictures of the car back from the dealership...It has been fully rebuilt bottom to top with JE Pistons, WEB Cam Cams, Full Ground Control Coilover suspension, Ceramic coated headers & downpipe, Custom Big Brake kit and the fuel & hard brake lines have been overhauled as well....It has a fully redone stereo system with a Double DIN Pioneer touch screen and 18 speakers all in the factory places with some tasteful exceptions like the two 12" pioneers I have in the rear hatch and the 6x9's I have in the rear cubbies but that's about it. This is now a one of kind 87' 944 S with paperwork and photo documentation to prove the service this car has received so far it has about 5 miles on it and I don't even know how fast it goes yet nor do I know where a dyno is here in central florida.











But the question still remains how much do you all think this car is now worth???
Old 09-27-2019, 10:51 AM
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The easy answer: Whatever someone is willing to pay you for it.

A more discouraging estimate is: Nowhere near what you have already put into it. These cars, other than a select few that are super low mile examples, are still mostly a labor of love; don't expect to make $$ out of them.

My suggestion: Enjoy it for what it is, as long as it makes you happy.
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Last edited by kdjones2000; 09-27-2019 at 12:15 PM..
Old 09-27-2019, 12:11 PM
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If it was a Porsche rebuilt engine in a stock car I would say you have added to the value, however that car is so personalized I don't see a huge increase in value. Don't get me wrong, with the amount of work you put into it it will probably give you really good service for a really long time but if you're looking to hop onto the bandwagon of recently escalating 944 prices I don't think you're going to make it with that car with that level of customization. I love your engine though.
Old 09-27-2019, 02:12 PM
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Plus one with GHEN

Drive it have fun with it, ...

P Cars with Such a personal touch usually are worth more to the owner than the general public ..no matter who or where the engine was built . Enjoy the Drive

Last edited by dp951; 09-28-2019 at 03:43 AM..
Old 09-27-2019, 02:58 PM
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Wow its not like I expected to be getting some big return on my investment I just thought being rebuilt from the dealership with photos and documentation and not some supped up LS1 conversion or other weird ass engine swap (Not that they aren't fun cars some of them) done by some racing shop alone added more value to the car period. Plus the car has a slew of known and proven racing upgrades and a kick ass 18 speaker 968 inspired all pioneer stereo system subs can be removed anytime and the stereo would still sound crystal clear at high volumes....I was thinking I have at least a 12-25K car on my hands!

it has roughly 3 to 5 miles on it and truthfully I don't even know how fast it goes yet...
need to find a dyno in lakeland anybody? and I can't wait to put some more but I was sadly expecting to hear better estimate offerings by our community...oh well off to customizing it some more...Lol!
Old 09-27-2019, 10:53 PM
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Personally if i am car shopping and see "race" and "stereo" "upgrades" it detracts from the value a lot, based on my general experience with other people who like those kinds of mods and how they beat and neglect the car... even if YOU aren't one of those folks. Just a turn off.

If you had a clean body with a good stock interior Itd be worth a lot more to a prospective buyer-- if someone wants a race car they can pick any stripped chassis they want.

Even with a dealership engine, its a rough 944S, it might fetch $3k on Craigslist.

Last edited by v2rocket_aka944; 09-28-2019 at 03:11 AM..
Old 09-28-2019, 03:09 AM
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May I ask how much the dealership charged you to rebuild the engine?
Old 09-28-2019, 05:06 AM
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It doesn't look finished so selling it as-is would be to someone who would finish it or part it out. No one is going to pay top dollar or even medium dollar for a car that needs to be finished, in this case I suppose that's $5K-10K to have a shop finish putting the car together depending on the amount of paint and bodywork, and how nice you want the paint to be. Also the custom cosmetics are very negative money unless you find someone who really likes them.

If I were a buyer I'd have little confidence in the engine unless it had a transferable warranty, and as a race engine build that'd be unlikely. I understand it's been recently built at a dealership but there are so many procedures in putting an engine together something often goes wrong. I see you say it has 5 miles on it but in the pics it looks like a non-runner so I do not know what to think.

Does the AC work? I would not care about the stereo if the AC did not work or for that matter if it had a loud, harsh ride on the streets.

If you built the car to drive it and show it and you'll enjoy doing that for 10 years it's not that important what it's worth to someone else. If instead you think you'd like to sell out and start building something else (or a different hobby) then I'd start by asking for less than the price of a decent 944S2. Unless there is a class of racing where the built 944S motor is super desirable, that might change things.
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Old 09-28-2019, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfrahm View Post
It doesn't look finished so selling it as-is would be to someone who would finish it or part it out. No one is going to pay top dollar or even medium dollar for a car that needs to be finished, in this case I suppose that's $5K-10K to have a shop finish putting the car together depending on the amount of paint and bodywork, and how nice you want the paint to be. Also the custom cosmetics are very negative money unless you find someone who really likes them.

If I were a buyer I'd have little confidence in the engine unless it had a transferable warranty, and as a race engine build that'd be unlikely. I understand it's been recently built at a dealership but there are so many procedures in putting an engine together something often goes wrong. I see you say it has 5 miles on it but in the pics it looks like a non-runner so I do not know what to think.

Does the AC work? I would not care about the stereo if the AC did not work or for that matter if it had a loud, harsh ride on the streets.

If you built the car to drive it and show it and you'll enjoy doing that for 10 years it's not that important what it's worth to someone else. If instead you think you'd like to sell out and start building something else (or a different hobby) then I'd start by asking for less than the price of a decent 944S2. Unless there is a class of racing where the built 944S motor is super desirable, that might change things.
Yeah I definitely plan on finishing it! and driving it...I just thought differently about it and all together with the engine fuel & brake overhaul I paid a little under 12K for everything I paid about 7K for the engine alone...I'm scheduled to bring it back in for the AC overhaul another 1300 or so for that part...so yes right now there are a lot of things that still need to get done but everything except for the cosmetics and small wiring projects has been and will be done by the dealership just for the service record and receipts....Thanks all, just a little disappointed in the feedback but very excited to finish and drive the car.....maybe selling isn't an option for me...I'm just a dad in the end, and the only reason I would ever sell it is for the progression of my family through life but hopefully times don't ever get hard again and it's smooth sailing in every part of life from now on in...I doubt it but it's good to be optimistic right? Lol!

Last edited by PHillary; 09-28-2019 at 08:57 AM..
Old 09-28-2019, 07:53 AM
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I am looking forward to seeing it finished.

Good Luck!

GHEN
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:42 PM
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