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question for people who know about emissions.

i have been to the mechanic 4 times this week to try and get my car to pass this stupid hippie emissions crap. i replaced the oxygen sensor after it failed the first time, it then failed again so i took it to an "emissions repair shop" where they told me that i had hooked up the oxygen sensor wire incorectly. apparently this was not the case because on my third emissions test i got almost the exact same numbers. the "emissions repair shop" has now decided that my car is unable to meet emissions and needs to be exempt.
my question is this: they say the cat is working but it seems to just be running slightly rich. could my timing be just slightly off due to an error during my(i had it replaced a the dealer) recent timing belt replacement as he suggested?(didnt think so) and what would cause it to run slightly rich? tps? egr stuff? faulty fuel damper?
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:47 PM
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i used some stuff called protec fuel injection cleaner.
its a special dealer only item and is realy hard to find.
mine was too rich till i used it in a 1/4 tank and then the numbers came down and i passed, its about $10 for a small can, i used 2.
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:21 PM
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What are the readings on the test.
CO
HC
No
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:55 PM
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I havn't had to deal with emmissions testing for ten years but here is what we used to do

Lean out the fuel mixture
Run the tank down to about an 1/8 of a tank and add 2 bottles of isoproply alcohol
Retard the timing
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:17 PM
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my readings arent the same, (94 z28 motor).
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Old 03-27-2003, 05:29 PM
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wow an lt1 in a porsche! you must get so much **** for that. i bet it sounds mean though. you dont have any videos of it by any chance?

here are the most recent numbers
HC- 25 mph: standard 168/current 240. 15 mph: standard 173/current 317 FAIL
CO- 25 mph: standard 1.08/current 0.60. 15 mph: standard 0.98/current 0.64 PASS
NO- 25 mph: standard 1208/current 1046. 15 mph: standard 1323/current 1560 FAIL
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Old 03-27-2003, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yo mama
wow an lt1 in a porsche! you must get so much **** for that. i bet it sounds mean though. you dont have any videos of it by any chance?

here are the most recent numbers
HC- 25 mph: standard 168/current 240. 15 mph: standard 173/current 317 FAIL

CO- 25 mph: standard 1.08/current 0.60. 15 mph: standard 0.98/current 0.64 PASS


NO- 25 mph: standard 1208/current 1046. 15 mph: standard 1323/current 1560 FAIL
It is not too rich or the Co would not have passed.
The hi HC could be timing, missfire, hicompression due to carbon buildup or a shaved head, Faulty Catalytic converter.

Hi NO caused by Hi timing, Failed egr ( I don't think yours has one), Or faulty catalytic converter.

Additives in the gas might make it pass but it only masks the real problem. Which is probably a Faulty cat if everything else is in order.
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Old 03-28-2003, 03:13 AM
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i dont know if they reved it for 3 minutes beforehand, i wasnt aware that was somehting they would do. i did make sure to get it up to temperature before dropping it off but i have no idea what temperature it was at when they actually tested.
im just gonna take it to someone who knows what they are doing. at some point i want to check the egr lines when i have time.
thanks for the help guys
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Old 03-29-2003, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yo mama
here are the most recent numbers
HC- 25 mph: standard 168/current 240. 15 mph: standard 173/current 317 FAIL
CO- 25 mph: standard 1.08/current 0.60. 15 mph: standard 0.98/current 0.64 PASS
NO- 25 mph: standard 1208/current 1046. 15 mph: standard 1323/current 1560 FAIL
I had much the same problems numbers you have ! After replacing the O2 sensors my numbers were better but the CAT was burnt out from running rich for so long. The car passed after replacing the CAT with a CATCO and reindexing the AFM screw (adjusted by PO) back to spec (7.5-8.0 turns from bottom).

If you have done all the basic things plugs, wires, cap and rotors, checked for vacumn leaks, replace the O2 sensor and the CAT is "good", the numbers should be closer than they are. I agree with the guys that suggest changing the CAT as it can go bad with age, a tank of bad gas or if the O2 sensor was causing the engine to run rich in the first place. The 3 way CAT is there to reduce the HC, CO and NO. You can get a replacement CAT at a reasonable price and the ones on the market are much better than the original Porsche model.

Here is some basic info:

High HC = engine running rich, Low NO
High NO = engine running lean, Low HC

You can get an idea if the O2 sensor is working by unplugging the sensor as the car is idling, you should hear a change in sound of the engine. Unplugging the O2 sensor causes the engine to run rich.


Mark
'86 944NA

Last edited by mlue; 03-29-2003 at 06:17 PM..
Old 03-29-2003, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by FR Wilk

http://frwilk.com/944dme
http://frwilk.com/early944
email: motronic@frwilk.com
Your site has the most DME info I've ever seen on the web! Thanks for sharing your research!

Mark
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Old 03-29-2003, 06:32 PM
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hey, i heard there was another guy who read it, like, two years ago or something.

i still miss tao tao's.

Old 03-30-2003, 09:17 AM
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I just read it. I love reading stereo instructions also, it's a long time hobby of mine.....I have a headache now....
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Old 03-30-2003, 11:26 AM
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you must be in tarrant county ! i have not even tried to pass my 944 yet. my brother (mazda) had to buy a new cat and my dad (93 Benz ) left his car in Bedford at Zims for 3 weeks while they tried to get it to pass. Apparently its only happening to Porshces, Bimmers and Mercedes. and some japanese cars too.

Good luck, and let me know if you ever do pass, i have to get mine inspected here too.
Old 03-31-2003, 12:31 PM
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by the way, if you are in tarrant county,
the old "leaning your car out" trick does not work anymore. they test for something new in the mixture to see if you leaned it out.

good luck
Old 03-31-2003, 12:33 PM
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im actually in denton but i plan on taking may car Zim's since i dont know of any reputable 944 mechanics aside from him.
the guy at the emissions shop said that a new cat might make it pass but it would only mask the real problem. damn clean air nazis
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Old 04-01-2003, 12:06 AM
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Replacing the converter may not be covering up anything. It is designed to take care of emission gasses produced as a result of normal combustion. The only way to know for sure is to take a sample before the cat and see what the emmisions really are. The hc and co should not be too far above the requirements to pass. The nox will be high if the others are normal. If this is the case you simply need to replace the cat.
If not have the proper necessary adjustments made to correct them. According to the reading you gave you will still need a cat to care for the nox whaich is produced as a result of the higher combustion temps due to the leaner mixture. Ther are no adjustments that will care for nox other than timing. The two things that take care of the nox gases are an egr system which lowers combustion temps by displacing some of the oxygen with exhaust gases, and the converter which changes the nox to nitrogen and oxygen.

BTW Those clean air nazi's as you call them are makeing it possible for you to breath and keep youre car. Also by haveing you make sure your car passes it also makes your car as efficient as possible thus saving you gas money.
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Old 04-01-2003, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bader4

BTW Those clean air nazi's as you call them are makeing it possible for you to breath and keep youre car. Also by haveing you make sure your car passes it also makes your car as efficient as possible thus saving you gas money.
breathing is for losers. and industry produces way more greenhouse gases than cars do.
i own a 944 which is a sports car, so obviosuly i dont care about mileage otherwise i would have bought an economy car.
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Old 04-02-2003, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yo mama
breathing is for losers. and industry produces way more greenhouse gases than cars do.
i own a 944 which is a sports car, so obviosuly i dont care about mileage otherwise i would have bought an economy car.
Not trying to start an argument just trying to help you fix your car.
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Old 04-03-2003, 03:09 AM
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yea that was inapropriate of me. im just annoyed at this problem.
i DO really appreciate the help.
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Old 04-03-2003, 08:12 PM
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