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FrenchToast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbuswell View Post
I'm pretty sure you guys made my brass gears. Well made part.

Ferdinand Piech would have fully endorsed your premise that he was saving weight with plastic over brass. By then, he was at either Audi or Volkswagen IMS when the 924s were being built ... after he created the firestorm that caused the Porsche family to be ousted from management. They had to settle for eventually being billionaires. Tough duty. Piech was a brilliant engineer but a stubborn, PITA to work with. Drilling holes in the ignition key, seriously?!

The difference in weight between your brass gears and plastic were negligible. Porsche was known for overbuilding some items that added unnecessary weight. If our cars were built like a Lotus, they'd be light like a feather but wouldn't make it out of the driveway.
I doubt it was a decision based on weight. If Porsche was so concerned with saving 4oz of weight from the roof, there is lower hanging fruit for them to achieve that. The decision was likely based on manufacturing cost. It would cost a lot more to make a metal part than a plastic part. A part that isn't critical to the operation of the vehicle.

Anyway, I would guess that the sunroof mechanism wasn't even designed by Porsche. It was likely built under contract by a supplier, delivered assembled, then installed and adjusted at Porsche.

There are far more critical parts that amazingly still work. Cast aluminum hubs? Somehow they work. No manufacturer uses a spindle on a front axle anymore.

Value engineering doesn't go away until you get to F1 or LMP1 cars.


Last edited by FrenchToast; 09-21-2020 at 04:05 PM..
Old 09-21-2020, 03:16 PM
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Porsche Crest I don't agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchToast View Post
I doubt it was a decision based on weight. If Porsche was so concerned with saving 4oz of weight from the roof, there is lower hanging fruit for them to achieve that. The decision was likely based on manufacturing cost. It would cost a lot more to make a metal part than a plastic part. A part that isn't critical to the operation of the vehicle.

Anyway, I would guess that the sunroof mechanism wasn't even designed by Porsche. It was likely built under contract by a supplier, delivered assembled, then installed and adjusted at Porsche.

There are far more critical parts that amazingly still work. Cast aluminum hubs? Somehow they work. No manufacturer uses a spindle on a front axle anymore.

Value engineering doesn't go away until you get to F1 or LMP1 cars.
I somehow doubt that anything goes into a Porsche without an engineer or team reviewing it. If a vendor built the part it was to Porsche specs (or at least Audi's in the case of a 924). Even so, implementing a design where you have to mess with the headliner and hatch seal to get to was a fail, IMHO. Hoping a plastic part never fails is a pipe dream.

Saving unsprung weight makes perfect sense. Aluminum is probably the best material to do that in a road car. Porsche became the premier experts on metallurgy to combine metals into alloys to get to their objectives. But now that I've worked on Porsches for fun, I keep finding parts that seem too robust and heavy for the job. I'm no engineer but when I run across a part like that, I apply the "smell test". If it doesn't make any sense it probably could have been lighter. Your contention that makers use plastic a lot, both for weight and cost reasons is true. I'm all for it in both cases. I like lighter, less expensive cars.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:59 AM
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Quick FYI: URO Parts just released Sunroof Seal 944 564 114 01 /94456411401. Pelican doesn't stock it yet, but should soon.

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Old 10-28-2020, 03:16 PM
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My sun roof is funky, some times it locks after I remove it, some times it takes a day or 2 to lock back, LOL! could be a switch or something elese, so I only remove it once in a great while..

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Old 11-01-2020, 09:45 AM
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