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sjohnstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Sunroof ripped out

Howdy everyone. I'm the proud new (1 month ago) owner of an '87 951 and of course, have a few issues to fix.

It looks like several of you have had your fair share of sunroof issues so any help you can throw my way would be much appreciated.

According to the PO the sunroof was literally ripped out of the car when it was being towed (backwards, no flat bed-bad). The sunroof was replaced but I can't make heads of where I need to start.

The worm cable is in the trunk so there's one thing to do. Does it fit through the plastic tube going through the sunroof motors? The sunroof motor spins & spins but doesn't seem to turn the cable (supposed to?), so does that mean it's broken or the microswitches are out of adjustment?

I've gotten access to the sunroof "clips" both on the sunroof and in the roof, but do these look broken? The sunroof "blows in the wind" when driving above 40mph so it's not locked down. I've seen two parts one costing $25 per and one costing $75 per.

Sorry for the long post... long story... lots of things on the sunroof to fix. I've attached pictures (in this and separate post). Sorry for the clarity-hard to take with the sun out.

Cheers!


Also, is the worm
Old 04-07-2003, 05:40 PM
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2 more images

Here are the two remaining images... hopefully you can make them out...
Old 04-07-2003, 05:41 PM
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Ornery Bastard
 
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The motor pushes/pulls the cable through the tube, it doesn't turn it. You have to feed the cable into the tube and then with the key in the "run" position hit the "up" button for the roof. The motor will then thread the cable all the way through the system. Run the motor until it stops (it will take up all of the cable).

Aaron

EDIT: Do NOT drive the car without the back of the sunroof locked down! There is a very real possibility that the roof will fly off.
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)

Last edited by AaronM; 04-07-2003 at 06:48 PM..
Old 04-07-2003, 06:41 PM
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Thanks Aaron! I haven't researched it enough, but the sunroof motor spins nonstop. The PO had taken the sunroof/hatch fuse out and when I put it back in the sunroof motor starting humming. The cable didn't move and touching the little silver roller wheels (microswitches?) didn't do anything.

So what actually holds the rear sunroof down? There are the L clips that the cable goes through, and then there are the plastic slots in the sunroof itself. Does the L mechanically engage the slots (slide left/right), or is something broken off on mine?

Thanks very much!!

Scott
Old 04-07-2003, 07:12 PM
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So, as soon as you replace the fuse, the motor automatically starts spinning?

Have you tried flipping the sunroof switch inside the car back and forth? It could be stuck. The first thing you have to do is to get that motor to stop spinning, then go from there.

944S Boyeee
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Old 04-08-2003, 07:06 AM
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SJohnStone: here's a shameless plug. I have the lift boxes for sale on ebay right now, I can't tell if you need them(pics have a bad glare) but if you could that would be great. Otherwise just check out the pics and compare or use as a reference. Believe me the p.o. isn't the first to lose the sunroof, never ever tow these things backwards w/ the sunroof up. Or like it was said earlier, driving straight w/o the rear locked will lose the sunroof too. There is amazing lift on these things. Anyways, here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33652&item=2409951991&rd=1
Old 04-08-2003, 08:40 AM
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Ornery Bastard
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjohnstone
Thanks Aaron! I haven't researched it enough, but the sunroof motor spins nonstop. The PO had taken the sunroof/hatch fuse out and when I put it back in the sunroof motor starting humming. The cable didn't move and touching the little silver roller wheels (microswitches?) didn't do anything.

So what actually holds the rear sunroof down? There are the L clips that the cable goes through, and then there are the plastic slots in the sunroof itself. Does the L mechanically engage the slots (slide left/right), or is something broken off on mine?

Thanks very much!!

Scott
Ah, I hadn't noticed that you said the motor ran continuously. In that case, it's probable that it's running in the wrong direction which would have resulted in the cable being backed completely out of the system as it was.

You are right about the "L" going up into the slots on the roof. There is a lifting arm ("L" shaped) on each side that is driven by a gear. The gear that drives the lifting arm is in turn driven by the serrated cable moving past it. The gears are prevented from stripping by a slip clutch that has a tendency to tighten up over the years. When the slip clutch tightens up, the gears strip out on the lifting arms (lifting arms are metal, gears are plastic, gears eat themselves leaving the cable and the lifting arms OK, but disconnected from each other).

The top picture in your second post is of the lifting arm assembly. If you remove the screws, you can pop the cover off (be careful, there is a thin washer that you'll need to keep) and you will see the gear and the lifting arm. The lifting arm will probably fall out, but it's very easy to put back in. If the gears are stripped, you can get new ones from www.944racing.com. (Look under OE Parts.) I bought mine there when I fixed my roof and they shipped very quickly and had a reasonable price. The gears kind of "pop" into place, you may need to use a needle-nose pliers to get enough grasp on the old gears to remove them.

Pelican has a great tech article about the sunroof on their website. Look in the 944 tech articles section near the bottom, there will be an article about the sunroof. It helped me out a lot.

Aaron
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)

Last edited by AaronM; 04-09-2003 at 09:29 AM..
Old 04-08-2003, 01:43 PM
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944S Boyeee - thanks for the sunroof switch tip. I like simple solutions.

Sorry for the delayed reply. The first response I got, I also got notified via e-mail. I guess I should read how to operate these posts... DOH!
Old 04-09-2003, 08:15 AM
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Highboost 951 - thanks for the plug! I'll check them out.
Old 04-09-2003, 08:16 AM
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Aaron -- thanks for the words of wisdom.

But how does the sunroof "lock" into the lifting arm to prevent it from blowing in the wind like mine? Perhaps you already answered this ("You are right about the "L" going up into the slots on the roof") and that my initial thought (it locks by having the L engage the sunroof by going left or right) but want to make sure you weren't talking about going up and down.

I'll figure this thing out yet! (with everybody's help!)
Old 04-09-2003, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjohnstone
Aaron -- thanks for the words of wisdom.

But how does the sunroof "lock" into the lifting arm to prevent it from blowing in the wind like mine? Perhaps you already answered this ("You are right about the "L" going up into the slots on the roof") and that my initial thought (it locks by having the L engage the sunroof by going left or right) but want to make sure you weren't talking about going up and down.

I'll figure this thing out yet! (with everybody's help!)
The "L" just moves fore and aft (though it is curved slightly, so it moves up while moving forward and down when moving aft). There is a ridge in the receiver part (the second picture in your second post) that the nub on the lifting arm rides in. When the roof is locked, the lifting arm is not retracted all the way, it is actually still slightly extended and it should be extended such that the nub is on the rubery part of the receiver in the roof.

The only time the lifting arms should be retracted fully is when you are removing the roof panel completely.

Aaron

EDIT: It's a shame that you're in NC. If you were near Pittsburgh (where I'm currently in college) or in Ohio somewhere I would be more than happy to drop by and give you a hand.

As it is, I'll run down today and take some pictures of my roof's operation and post them for you. It will probably be 17:00 or later EST by the time I get them up on the web though.
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)

Last edited by AaronM; 04-09-2003 at 09:21 AM..
Old 04-09-2003, 09:18 AM
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Well that explains it. The nub on the lifting arm is there, but there is no ridge on the receiver part to keep it from flapping. I guess it broke off when the sunroof went flying.

Time to look for the part...
Old 04-09-2003, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjohnstone
Well that explains it. The nub on the lifting arm is there, but there is no ridge on the receiver part to keep it from flapping. I guess it broke off when the sunroof went flying.

Time to look for the part...
The ridge is clearly there in your pictures. Hopefully my pictures will clear things up for you.

Pictures of the sunroof's operation.

Aaron
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)

Last edited by AaronM; 04-09-2003 at 07:14 PM..
Old 04-09-2003, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AaronM
The ridge is clearly there in your pictures. Hopefully my pictures will clear things up for you.

Pictures of the sunroof's operation.

Aaron
linky no worky
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:03 PM
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Ornery Bastard
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scootin159
linky no worky
Dang. It was working when I posted it. Hold on. Link fixed.

http://pichosting.pcthike.com/album18

Aaron
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 04-09-2003, 07:13 PM
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I was able to navigate through them and find them. I appreciate it. The pictures cleared it up for me. Very cool -- now I don't need to buy any clips!

It looks like now I've just got to feed the cable back through and find out why the motor keeps spinning and see if the lifter gears are stripped.

I'll keep you posted.
Old 04-10-2003, 11:49 AM
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Ornery Bastard
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjohnstone
I was able to navigate through them and find them. I appreciate it. The pictures cleared it up for me. Very cool -- now I don't need to buy any clips!

It looks like now I've just got to feed the cable back through and find out why the motor keeps spinning and see if the lifter gears are stripped.

I'll keep you posted.
Just a pointer, when you feed the cable back through, be sure to have the roof off and the lifting arms removed. If you don't do this, you will strip the gears if they aren't stripped already. I would recommend checking the gears before running the cable back through.

Considering the cost of the gears (I think I paid $6.99 each, two needed), you're probably best off to just buy new ones anyway. Even if you don't need to replace the current gears, it's nice to have a spare set just in case.

Aaron
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 04-10-2003, 02:33 PM
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I'll check them today. Thanks!
Old 04-11-2003, 08:04 AM
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In case you were wondering, I got everything back in place. I set the torque to 45 in/lbs (was 65), but my mechanic said there was a bulletin and that he sets all of them to 39 in/lbs... anywho...
Replaced the gears (they were munched), adjusted the microswitches (I thought good enough-more on this in a sec), fed the cable back through and adjusted the lifts. The sunroof raised and lowered beautifully, and then I decided to check the release by having the ign. sw. in 1. It didn't stop and then I tried to feed it back through but it had already come out of the lifter and so it munched another gear. DOH!
My job tomorrow is to adjust the microswitch that hits last.

Hopefully 45 in/lbs isn't too much!
Old 04-18-2003, 05:32 PM
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Ornery Bastard
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjohnstone
In case you were wondering, I got everything back in place. I set the torque to 45 in/lbs (was 65), but my mechanic said there was a bulletin and that he sets all of them to 39 in/lbs... anywho...
Replaced the gears (they were munched), adjusted the microswitches (I thought good enough-more on this in a sec), fed the cable back through and adjusted the lifts. The sunroof raised and lowered beautifully, and then I decided to check the release by having the ign. sw. in 1. It didn't stop and then I tried to feed it back through but it had already come out of the lifter and so it munched another gear. DOH!
My job tomorrow is to adjust the microswitch that hits last.

Hopefully 45 in/lbs isn't too much!
If it pulled it back through, the torque is too much. There is no microswitch to stop it when the roof releases, that stoppage is entirely dependant upon the clutch slippage. Loosen the clutch. Also, make sure that both lifting arms are becoming fully retracted at the same time.

Aaron
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 04-18-2003, 06:35 PM
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