Sport Susp/Seats (factory) options? (SCCA)

[1.2gees]

I'm planning to put my car back in a stock class, I only have springs, and bushings left to get rid of...

The question is: What kind of options were there, for an 84 944? Was there a rear sway bar? How about bigger front sway bar? Or heavier front springs? Was there a package? Or different options could be ordered seperately. I ask because I want to upgrade the car (well, downgrade compared to where it's been!) to the max available options/packages back in 84. SCCA specifically asks for you to get the whole package, (if there was one), or nothing, stand alone options can be put on the car, but again they have to be from the specific year your car's from. Also, ditto for the sport seats, my car has sport seats, will I be able to keep them?

Thanks for any help, if you know a web site I can go to, and find out for myself, that's all good.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

The rear sway bar was is confusing on the 944. Usually the only 944's with rear sway bars are the ones with the M30 sport option package. In 1988 the rear sway bar became standard on all 944's. As far as the springs go there were no options I know of. The high back seats were standard for the 944. No sports seats for the 84 model. I recommend "Oringinal Porsche 924/944/968" if you want to make your car stock again. This book contains many photos and a break down of each model year covering interior, suspension, engine, brakes, etc. Hope this helps.

[1.2gees]

So you mean there was a sport package? What did it come with?
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

Basically thicker sway bars was the sport package. Look in your trunk I believe and pull the carpet back and you can see if you have it by looking for the M30 option.

[1.2gees]

Thanks for the info...

My car originally came with a very dinky front sway bar, and none at the rear, so I presume it doesn't have the sports package...

But that doesn't matter, what does is whatever I CAN get, that is limited to what was offered from the factory/dealer...

So sway bars was a package, ok, that means I can't only get the rear...

You're saying no sport springs? Bushings (well, I know they didn't have any "sporty bushings"...)/SHOCKS? Wheels? Anything else? As a package, or seperately?

Any further information would help, thanks again.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[thamlin000]

Hoff, my 83 944 came with non-pwr sport seats. It was a factoy option and the sport seat option code is on the options list in my trunk.

If they were available on the 83, they should have been available on the 84 too.

The early sport seats were different from the later sport seats though.

[hoff944]

I believe 1.2gees has the Turbo style seats though. Theres a difference.

[1.2gees]

Yeah I do, per SCCA rules, I'm working to get some from an earlier car, non power, lighter too, and hey, the harsh lines of the early sport seats match the early interior better too. However, I still like the late style seats better... They're power too!

Oh well, ok anyway, so THE only thing one could get in 1984 to make their car handle better was a thicker sway bar deal? How about optional rims? Didn't they have 16 inch fuchs? Umm, hmm, how about sport shocks, (which I presume, and hope would be matched to higher rate springs right?)So I could also get springs, and shocks?

I called and talked to several places/people, I'm going to try to get a confirmation from the local dealer monday, but not many people care/know about/or just plain don't have the records...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

Ooops I can't believe I forgot that. The had Konis or Boge shocks on the sports package. 16 inche fuchs were an option.

[1.2gees]

Don't tell me the optional sports package (or whatever) came with shocks, and sway bars only!

Whenever you put a sport shock (which is definately harder than standard, and usually shorter too), you HAVE to match it with the springs... That's what I'm trying to find out!

(Lord help me)

See, if I get this straight, get the springs in the car by August 6th, I will have a good shot at whopping some rear with my little Porsche... Don't we all want that? The world will be a better place for the children ladies and gentlemen...

Ok, anyway, more help?

Also, is there ANY chanse that 86 turbo fuchs are the same dimentions as optional fuchs for the early cars?

Thanks in advance for any further help,
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[todd951]

Early 944's with either standard or sport shocks had springs with 21.8 N/mm spring rate. Early cars with the M030 suspension (which is adjustable ride height on the front struts) have 24.0 N/mm springs.

[1.2gees]

So M030 WAS an option for the "early" 944 NA?

YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS

Now, the package included, hold on, adjustible ride height in the front? You're talking later man... Aren't you?

Do you know how 24N/mm would translate to Pounds per inch? or 21.8?

Any possibility I can use 86 turbo springs on the car, as in are they same as the optional springs for early NA cars? Would make sense for them to be a little stiffer, a little shorter... Do you know the rate for the Turbo springs? (that's a very key question right there, as long as the answer fits the other two figures for comparison).

Thanks for the info no-less.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[todd951]

Yes, M030 was on option on early cars, and it does include adjustable ride height. Non-M030 Turbo springs wouldn't do you any good, since they have the same 21.8 N/mm rate. The Turbo M030 springs increase to 28 N/mm. All this info is in the factory shop manuals.
Also, the standard front swaybar for early 944's is 20mm solid, and optional are 21.5mm solid or 23x3.5mm tubular. Rear swaybars were not standard, but a 14mm rear bar was optional.

21.8 N/mm = 124.5 lb/in
24 N/mm = 137 lb/in
28 N/mm = 160 lb/in

[Pilot_951S]

On a related note does this mean you need to sell your Sport seats?

If it does I'm interested depending on color.

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The shortest distance between two points is in my car.

[1.2gees]

Thank you very much for clearing it up todd.

Even the M030 is 160lbs per inch, likely going down from 350lbs I will find the car a tad mushy... I've got the rear bar, and any front sway bar is allowed, so don't have to go factory there...

Hmmm this is a hard one...

Pilot, yes I'm selling the sport seats (but I already have a buyer, it's an exchange thing for early sport seats +cash). If you're interested, please get back to me ASAP.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[todd951]

Keep in mind that the 160 lb/in. springs are the Turbo M030 springs, not the early 944na M030 springs (which are 137 lb/in.). Technically, using Turbo M030 springs would bump you out of stock class even if you had original early 944 M030 struts, because they weren't available on the 944na in '84.

[1.2gees]

Todd, I have the shop manuals, and did look through them, however I don't have the turbo supplement, and don't see any info on the turbo...

Ok, so are normal 951 springs the same rate, and height of normal early 944 NA springs?

Any shock is allowed right? What do you suggest, right now I'm running quite close to dead KYBs, and thinking of switching to the larger front bar (actually deal is to be made today/tomorrow), and maybe bilsteins in the front to help me regain some of that lost performance? Or maybe I should just run in the modified class? But loosing my front bushings/springs earns me about 2.5secs on a 45sec course, through PAX...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

Well I learned something......
Every book I've seen as always showed the same springs for the early 944 though.

[This message has been edited by hoff944 (edited 07-31-2000).]

[todd951]

Normal 951 springs are the same rate as normal 944na springs, but they're not the same free length. Believe it or not, they're actually longer (944na = 381 mm free length, 951 = 396 mm free length). Seems odd, but I'm guessing that maybe the perches on the 951 struts are lower to account for the longer spring.
Bilsteins are the best, but the only ones I know of for the 944 are height-adjustable coil-overs, so they would put you right back into street prepared. I'm pretty sure the original M030 height adjustable struts are Koni, so you could probably get away with a new set of off the shelf Konis that just don't have the Porsche part number on them. Of course, the least costly route would be to keep your original front struts and just put some new Koni inserts in them.

[1.2gees]

I think that might be because the struts sit at more of an angle on the 951 than they do on the 944, so to get the right height, it would need to be a tad longer...

Anyway, thanks a lot for the help, I think I'm going to buy some complete struts, along with used shocks from Partsheaven, for both they're asking $100, not too bad, but good, new shocks, and installation extra...

Oh well, perhaps I can make the next auto x (coming weekend), in the stock class, and show them what's up! I hope...

I will also get the sway bar for the front, I've already got the one for the rear. Perhaps I can sell the springs for much more, thank God they fit the 951, cause not sadly, not many people are interested in modifying their 944 NAs anymore...

Thanks again, you've really saved me some time...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...