944 Autocrossing Questions

[hoff944]

I'm thinking about getting more into autocrossing with a very limited budget since I'm in college. More for fun and improving my driving skills than for the competition. I have some quesitons about this though. Would autocrossing more often have any negative effects on my car? Since I've owned a 944 for three years, I know of course that the 944 handles great, but how durable is the suspension in autocrossing over a period of time? Any other modifications I need to do to get going? Thanks for any feedback.

[1.2gees]

Get a good alignment, and don't touch anything else in the suspension, it's pretty good stock. Well, you could get sway bars, and shocks, but I'd stop there for some not-so serious auto-xing (on a limited budget).

Next comes the tires, VERY important step.

Others: Transaxle problems are (specially in my case) VERY common, God knows why... ALWAYS double clutch, and NEVER try to put it in gear (in action) if it doesn't just find it's way through the gate. Don't dump the clutch, instead release it a little bit, and have the drive-train loaded, and then get on full power/release the clutch. Depending on how often you do this, your clutch may take a beating. As long as you follow these, your transaxle shouldn't live too short.

Brakes are another improtant point, get some new pads, rotors, fluid, and stainless steel brake lines. From experiance, I recommend Pagid Orange pads for front (rear's not that important), DOT approved SS brake lines, and some ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid. I hear synthetic is very good too, but the specs forthe ATE fluid exceed most DOT 4s anyway, so I don't see a reason to try synthetic.

Steering components might wear faster, make sure you change the timing belt at (at least) the recommended schedule/milage. And fill your oil about 1/4th a quart above the full line.

If you ever spin, (get the yaw angle greater than 45 degrees or so) PUSH THE CLUTH IN! Depending on how much room you have, you might want to brake hard or not. The thing is trying to keep the tires from flat-spotting.

You know I have answers to other questions you might have about auto-xing right?
Ahmet



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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

Thanks a million 1.2gees. What do you mean by double clutching it? You mean when engaging to first gear only? Surely not every gear?!?! BTW, Your the only person I've every heard that has problems with the transmissions. Not questioning you or anything but just mentioning.

What do you mean by steering compenents wearing faster?

I plan on lauching like I always do upon the start. No 2.5K or 3K RPM clutch dumps for my wallet. I have an emergency fund set up in case the clutches goes but don't want to use it if I don't have to. I've got the stock sway bars and I'm using synthetic brake fuild already.

[1.2gees]

You're telling me I'm the only person who breaks transaxles? Interesting, cause I keep hearing (and seeing) 944 NAs with broken transaxles... However, almost EVERY single one of them was an early example with an LSD... (other models are MUCH tougher, namely the turbos, specially the 87 and up with the torsen LSD).

Double clutching: (really necessary only during downshifts, mandatory in my opinion if you're skipping a gear on the way)

*Example*
-You're in third, and you need to downshift into 2nd, really fast, while you're braking hard for the next turn... While braking (heel&toe, that is you tap the throttle, while still on the brakes with your right foot) push in the clutch, move the lever into neutral, let out the clutch (don't have to let it out all the way, usually halfway is adequate to turn the pinion in the transaxle, and this does NOT wear anything, actually saves synchros, the clutch, and a lot of stress on the hole drivetrain) tap the throttle *this is where you heel&toe*, push the clutch back in, and move the lever into second, then let the clutch back out, as you come back on the gas...-

You'll get used to doing this, fast, and it shall be completed just as you finish trail braking, if auto-xing that'll be very close, or exactly the time you apply power, usually right before the apex.

Steering components wearing out fast:
Specially after you get sticky tires, there'll be more stress on your steering rack, and tie rod ends, that's about it, power steering pump doens't usually have a problem with being used hard, as long as the car's moving. My steering rack is starting to feel loose, and I've probably driven over 700 miles at auto-xes so far, and I drive VERY hard on the street as well, had 17 rims with good tires on it, currently I'm running 245s, so if a rack would wear out, it should've been mine. It's worn now (according to me, as in it's not as "tight" anymore), but only after 145+k, on 50 or so of which I've owned, (read, ABUSED) the car. Tie rod ends are cheap, easy to replace, just make sure you do it with the car pointed straight ahead, and the rack centered. Power steering racks are about $350-700 for a rebuilt one with 1 year/life time warranty, not so bad...

Launching a car in an auto-x will save you a very big deal of time, if you're not too serious, it's OK, but I always like to shave a second (at least, over how you launch the car, if what you describe is correct), if I can. I've had a sport clutch in for about 35k or so on the car, and it's not worn noticably yet, though when I was at a 24 hour auto-x, I noticed it didn't grab as hard as it used to, however as I've said, it's not worn at all yet, and after letting it sit for about an hour (right after the race, in which I DID race for 24 hours, save for the time I was working on the course, about 2 hours). So it's not glazed or anything, all is well... My factory clutch didn't seem to have any wear on it either, as long as you do everything smoothly, and you don't have the rubber centered crap in there, you should be OK. As I've mentioned earlier, letting the clutch slip a bit, BEFORE you apply full power is very important.

Despite all that, after the 24 hour race, the transaxle felt extremely loose, namely the pinion bearings, which thanks to friends at "European Performance" are getting replaced as we speak. I think the transaxle was a little low on fluid too, but it's ok now... (I was leaking).

While I'm at it, try to check all fluids/air pressure in tires regulary, before, after, and if you have time, even DURING the race, and try to look at your oil pressure gauge right before and after each lap.

Sway bars really help, I'd consider that as one of my most important things in the "to upgrade" list. Start with the rear... But the front also does help. I like a little bit of understeer on my car, but being able to throttle over-steer is very important, and if you run some serious tires, (and have LSD in your transaxle) this will not really be possible, you need to take turns a bit wider at the exit to compensate, as you cannot rotate the car during the exit of the turn (with the throttle on a stock 8v NA).

How's that for answers Hoff?

If you have any more questions, I'll be glad to help, I'll be setting up a serious car, (might go for an S2, a turbo, a 968, maybe a 911, or another car completely, but I have a feeling I'll stick with the front engined Porsches, if I decide I'd like to do some serious track work, the 951, and 968 will be high on my list, if not, the other cars I mentioned are still highly possible)now that I'm definately loosing my license, and won't have it back for at least 2 months.
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...

[hoff944]

I'm just saying your the only person I know of that is having tranny problems with their 944. Well I'm just going by the 3 guys I know personally who do wheel to wheel PCA club racing (Actually one does SCCA). They run an 83, 84 944, and an 87 924S. I know of other 944 owners but no tranny problems they've told me about. I don't think mine has a LSD on it. My tranny shifts great. Crisp shifts that slide right into the gate with no problem. Feels better than a 2000 GTI I got to drive.

[This message has been edited by hoff944 (edited 10-04-2000).]

[1.2gees]

Well, you did attempt to keep from attacking me personally, thank you for that...

However, when you say you've never heard of transaxles breaking on 944s, I have to ask, save for the internet, have any of your friends had a timing belt go, how'bout water pump, oil cooler seals? These things happen, it doesn't mean the 5 (or however many) people you talk to will have the problems AND tell you about them.

I really like the feel of my 944's shifting, yesterday I put a new lincage on it, better than ever! too bad I won't be driving for long...

Well, the 944 was NOT the car I learned how to drive on, that was an M-5, it wasn't the first stick car I've ever owned, that was a Prelude Si. I've abused the 944 transaxle, but nowhere near as badly as I did with that Prelude, which didn't have any problems, but it was at about 45-50k when I let my sister "borrow" it for about a year... I've probably put 40k or so on that thing, and I've burned through a couple of sets of tires, by dumping the clutch, I would lock up the tires by shifting into a gear way too low sometimes, keep in mind, sticky wide tires... The car went through 2 clutches, but the transaxle feels, shifts, sounds (doesn't make any noise) just as it did the first day I've got it. I'd just expect a little better from the 944 than that, but yes I HAVE abused it as well...

Well, I can't help but wonder, howcome the transaxle is THE ONLY thing that keeps braking? I've had a couple of professional drivers ride with me (and me with them) they say I shift quite nice, smooth, and fast... The clutch on the 944 is doing very good too, and I do double clutch almost at every-shift... But then again, all other wear-out items do get replaced pretty often, pads rotors have not lasted over 10-15k so far...

Overall though it's been THE biggest pain about owning my car, therefor I say watch out, and be easy/smooth with it,

You don't have any other questions? Well, keep me updated on how you do...
Ahmet

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It's all the driver...