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-   -   Power Window (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/109861-power-window.html)

zaxx81 05-08-2003 12:03 AM

Power Window
 
1983 944 - Just this morning my power windows quit working (all three switches). Before today, they all worked except the driver side switch that controls the passenger side window. I looked at the fuse (25Amp) and it was fried. Anytime you put a new one in regardless if the keys are in the ignition or not it blows immediately (while I am still holding it). I am unable to find the Power Window Relay (it doesn't appear to be a part of the fuse and relay assembly in the driver footwell.

My most educated guess would be the Power Window Relay. Since it sends the units their power when the key is turned on. If there is a short there, than that would explain the always present 12V at the fuse.

<B><I>WHERE IS THIS RELAY?</B></I>

todwic 05-08-2003 03:36 AM

Try replacing both of your driver's side switches. I had the same problem and that cured it. I guess the pass. side is hooked in with the d.s. pass. window switch. Just a guess, but it worked for me.

carsontc 05-08-2003 07:36 AM

the relay is probably with the others under the dash all the way over on the left

anyone know where an image is of the fuse/relay box?

there is a good one in the owner's manual

here's the print on the 84 window wiring

http://www.pelicanparts.com/944/electrical/944_84_elec_windows.jpg

it may give a little help

is there a way to unplug the door harness? itís a high failure item, guess it could short out easy enough

zaxx81 05-08-2003 08:24 AM

Okay here is the update. I unplugged all switches. Still pops a fuse. See it would have to be a relay. Since it has 12V all the time regardless of the key, this would make the relay stuck in the engergized position. The other question however would be, is there anything else? If you look at the schematic that is listed in the above reply, you will notice that there is no way for the fuse to get power unless the relay is stuck or shorted (it must be in order to complete the circuit). The Haynes Manual doesn't have the relays, so I refer to the owners manual. According to it none of the relays at the main relay and fuse area, are for the power windows. So if I do find another shorted part, like a wire, harness, or motor, I will still be screwed until I can locate and replace this relay.

<B><I>HELP, Where is this relay?</B></I>

carsontc 05-08-2003 08:47 AM

when I put the key in the ignition I hear a click from around the glove box somewhere...always assumed it was a relay but never needed to look for it

zaxx81 05-08-2003 09:58 PM

Anyone please? Where is this relay located?

1.2gees 05-08-2003 10:08 PM

A stuck relay won't cause an immidiate short (which sounds like the case here). I would check the wiring around the passanger window switch, in the driver's door.

Please let us know how this works out.
Ahmet

zaxx81 05-09-2003 12:09 PM

I realize that it won't cause an immediate short. But look at the diagram. The only way for 12V to be there all the time is if the relay is stuck. The relay applies 12V to the Power Window circuit by the ignition or accessory circuit being on. This relay being stuck will cause the 12V to always be on. That's why I need in addition to finding the short to also find the relay.

Moneyguy1 05-10-2003 10:15 AM

Relays can fail in interesting ways. If intenal arcing occurs, the relay can "short" to ground since one lead of the coil goes there. If that occurs, the fuse would blow and the +12 volts could conceviebly be on all the time since the purpose of the relay is to use the ignition switch as an "activator" to pass through non-switched current. I would vote for the relay and far less probable a pinched lead. But, since it happens key in or key out, the relay is the most logical choice. Look on the RH side under the instrument panel. If I recall, that is where it is. It's been a while since I dug under there.....

zaxx81 05-10-2003 07:44 PM

See that is what I have been saying the whole time. I suspect the relay myself. I am having trouble findind it though. I have found four relays on the right under the dash, but they are not marked. Looks like I am going to have to tear the dash and console apart to follow the wire from the fuse.

coupe 05-10-2003 08:12 PM

What model car do you have? what year?

carsontc 05-11-2003 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zaxx81
I realize that it won't cause an immediate short. But look at the diagram. The only way for 12V to be there all the time is if the relay is stuck. The relay applies 12V to the Power Window circuit by the ignition or accessory circuit being on. This relay being stuck will cause the 12V to always be on. That's why I need in addition to finding the short to also find the relay.
(83' 944)

on the early 944 schematic, the 12v is coming into the fuse from the top (not shown) that's why it "there all the time".

then through the relay contacts on the red (30 through to 87) and out on the red/blue.

it could be a bad relay, but if the red/blue is 'shorted out' before the switches you removed already, replacing the relay will only stop the fuse blowing only while it is removed.

carsontc 05-15-2003 06:21 PM

btw...in the early 944 the power window relay is just to the right of the DME unit under the dash


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