Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered Loser
 
pete13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 121
i think I might do it.....

Alright guys... I've been thinkin about it for a while, and I'm startin to get serious about it. I've got an '88 2.5 n/a, and I want to put on a turbo on it, (rather than just buy a 951, I'd like to do it myself), so I plan to:
First, pull the engine: install low-comp pistons(8:1 I think, or possibly have mine reduced to 8:1, unless anyone thinks that's a bad idea) along with no-gap rings.
next, new head gasket(what's the best kind?)
Along with a general engine cleaning, possibly resealing
Next, the actual Turbo installation: would it be best to just buy a 951 exhaust manifold, or a custom-fabrication job?
I've been leaning toward a Garret or Turbonetics T3/T4 hybrid. Opinions on this? Deltagate wastegate, HKS blow-off valve.
Install larger injectors(65lb/hr good?) and new fuel pump(i've heard warlboro is best) to handle fuel delivery.
As far as the actual piping, what kind should I use? Is it possible to shape it myself without a zillion-dollar mandrel bending machine?
Spearco intercooler, mounted in front, most likely
As far as engine management, I'm not sure. Electromotive tec-3 sounds nice, but is very expensive, and I'm doing this keeping budget in mind. What do you think I should do for engine management?

I appreciate everyone's input, i know that everone here can contribute to make this possible.
Old 05-11-2003, 05:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gearhead290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,131
Send a message via AIM to gearhead290
don't turbo the n/a motor. Waste of time and money. Keep your eyes open, I might be doing a turbo swap here real soon and I know there's a guy (Andre) on Rennlist that is doing the swap right now. Stay tuned, IF I do the swap I will document it on this site and give a link EVERYTIME somebody asks about the turbo conversion.
__________________
95 240sx-track slut w/ too much done to list
87 944 n/a-old "toy" that broke too much
Old 05-11-2003, 07:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: www.fakelife.com
Posts: 1,673
Send a message via AIM to SlowToady
On one hand, I want to tell you to go for it just because not many people do it and lots of people always say how stupid it is. It's one of those things that I'd tell you to do just because 99% of people tell you not to. Those things can always be fun.

However..

There is usually a reason people tell you not to do certain things. Believe me when I tell you I more than understand why you want to (I'm willing to bet you really, really wanna tinker with something..join the club), but sometimes there is a better way. For example, why not get a 951 motor and drop that in? It would save you lots of money, and since you're on a budget...The cost of building a Turbo motor compared to BUYING one should make the choice easier.

Then again, it WOULD be hella fun to do, and you'd probably learn some stuff along the way. It would come at a high price, but what the hell, right?

I guess as long as you understand it's going to cost a LOT of money, and take a lot of time, and be a lot of work, then go for it. I'd first shop around for a 951 engine.

Oh yea, I totally don't know what the hell I'm talking about, either. I'm just spouting random **** as it comes to me because I'm mad. Cheers mate!
Old 05-11-2003, 07:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 610
YES YES YES! I love to hear this from people, im tired of the sell it and buy a turbo talk everyone says around here, anyone can do that, not anyone can custon turbo a car and set it up to be reliable and whatnot. I am planning to supercharge mine sometime soon.

First off: You can just put larger injectors in and a fuel pump and expect that to give enough fuel and the right amount and under boost conditions. You can keep your injectors you have now, put in a 5th and maybe 6th injector activated by pressure switches to come on and certain PSI settings(you can adjust the switches to activate whenever). Also a Cartech Adjustable FMU is a very good idea, you can adjust when you increase fuel pressure, by how much and the onset of fuel pressure so there is no lean spots.

Second: Another thing needed for safe boosting is timing retard, so a MSD Boost Timing master is a good candidate. The best is a J&S Safeguard system though, it has the function of retarding timing more as boost increases(Just like the MSD BTM) But also will retard more if it starts knocking! Its around $500 though! And the MSD BTM is only $165.

The FMU, Boost Timing Master AND Extra Injectors Are ALL activated based on boost, so when your not in boost it will be the complete stock setting. This is the setup i am using, but i am not putting in lower compression pistons, i plan on running no more than 7PSI, probably just 5PSI to be safe. If you do lower the compression though, i would say this setup would probably let you push 15PSI with an intercooler pretty well, as long as you set it up right and make sure you do not lean out at all and retard the timing somewhat. Gauges are definetely a must for doing this. Have Fun doing it, let us all know how it goes!!!!!!


-John
Old 05-11-2003, 08:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Moderator
 
1.2gees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Cary NC United States
Posts: 3,210
Garage
Send a message via AIM to 1.2gees
Go for it if you're in for the adventure. Most people who want to convert don't realize the things that are absulutely necessary for the conversion however?

Depending on how much power you want to make, this can include larger injectors, and ofcourse fuel management, timing control etc. After that you'll still need all the "custom" plumbing for the turbocharger (oil/antifreeze feed and drains). This is ofcoruse not to mention the need for custom exhaust plumbing to and from the turbo, againf or the intake, to and from the turbo. This assumes you'll let the turbo hang from the exhaust which is OK but you'll need either a very short, or a very, very strong manifold. Stainless stell is advisable to use for the exhaust manifold for durability and longetivity reasons, which is expensive and hard to work with. Ofcourse there'll be a lot of vibrations and there needs to be slack left in for expansion/contraction of parts. Or reliability/longetivity will suffer.

I will go so far to mention that if/when you do have a problem with your turbo conversion it'll be YOUR problem, and you won't be able to get much help from places like this board, or the PCA or Porsche publications like excellence, etc. Ofcousre you still need to adequately shield certain parts from heat.

If you have an earlier 944, when this is all said and done you will have a waterpump that moves less coolant, a smaller capacity oil pump, smaller oil galleries etc. Need I mention no oil cooler, and smaller radiator regardless of the year of your 944. Most 944 turbos come with strengthened gearboxes, mine has a transaxle cooler also, this is not to mention several stronger/improved suspension parts, clutch etc. to cope w/the power. Ofcourse your brakes/suspension as they are now will, if you plan to drive your car hard, need to be taken care of also.

This is an opinion ofcourse, and there's more than one way of doing things...
Ahmet
__________________
Cheers!
Old 05-11-2003, 08:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Petie3rd
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 4,505
Send a message via Yahoo to Mrmerlin
If you like to mess with a N/A then by all means go for it..........
But If you should like to have a faster car... Buy a 951.... it is already made to go faster and it does........ but hey it is your money....
A N/A is a good learning car, and a 951 is a good wrench car. both take some skill to keep running to perfection
If you take a good long look at both cars there are so many things that are made to handle more power on the 951 it is alomst a waste of time and money to go the N/A to turbo route...
while your thinking about rebuilding your N/A for the turbo you might want to replace your cam and the head with Turbo parts, and get some Turbo injectors, also it might be a good idea to plumb in the Turbo water cooling pump that runs after engine shutdown, but that should not be too hard only an extra few lines and few relays, i have an intercooler and an intake manifold i could sell you
__________________
^^^ Stan ^^^ 2011 BMW K1300S Magma red
1988 S4 Auto , Elfenbein Perlglanz, Pearl Gray
1988 S4 5 sp, Black / Black leather/ Carmel carpet
Old 05-11-2003, 08:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dartmouth Ma
Posts: 460
Send a message via AIM to XJOSHX Send a message via Yahoo to XJOSHX
I would say get 951 pistons and o-ring the head.garret turbo's seem to be a good way to go. Maybe speedforceracing.com can help you out a little. I know they will do anything for a price. Tec-II is mucho expensive but I hear it is amazing. Since you are on a budget I would say try to find used intercoolers like out of a mitsubishi starion or a 951. If you are really lucky since you have a pre 85.5 you can look around for an old callaway turbo conversion. I know I want one in the worst way I jsut don't have the cash for it. Heck, I don't even have the cash for a 944. I know someday I want an n/a that is different. Good luck. If you get it done let us know how it goes and how much of a difference it makes.
__________________
1983 944 - Project Time!
1986 944T (Stolen)
1987 944 N/A (Sold)
1984 944 N/A (Sold)
1986 944 N/A (Sold)
Old 05-11-2003, 10:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dartmouth Ma
Posts: 460
Send a message via AIM to XJOSHX Send a message via Yahoo to XJOSHX
Quote:
Originally posted by Roastin944
YES YES YES! I love to hear this from people, im tired of the sell it and buy a turbo talk everyone says around here, anyone can do that, not anyone can custon turbo a car and set it up to be reliable and whatnot. I am planning to supercharge mine sometime soon.

First off: You can just put larger injectors in and a fuel pump and expect that to give enough fuel and the right amount and under boost conditions. You can keep your injectors you have now, put in a 5th and maybe 6th injector activated by pressure switches to come on and certain PSI settings(you can adjust the switches to activate whenever). Also a Cartech Adjustable FMU is a very good idea, you can adjust when you increase fuel pressure, by how much and the onset of fuel pressure so there is no lean spots.

Second: Another thing needed for safe boosting is timing retard, so a MSD Boost Timing master is a good candidate. The best is a J&S Safeguard system though, it has the function of retarding timing more as boost increases(Just like the MSD BTM) But also will retard more if it starts knocking! Its around $500 though! And the MSD BTM is only $165.

The FMU, Boost Timing Master AND Extra Injectors Are ALL activated based on boost, so when your not in boost it will be the complete stock setting. This is the setup i am using, but i am not putting in lower compression pistons, i plan on running no more than 7PSI, probably just 5PSI to be safe. If you do lower the compression though, i would say this setup would probably let you push 15PSI with an intercooler pretty well, as long as you set it up right and make sure you do not lean out at all and retard the timing somewhat. Gauges are definetely a must for doing this. Have Fun doing it, let us all know how it goes!!!!!!


-John


Doesn't the DME automatically retard the timing??? Isn't that why it's a breeze to install nos???? I would never nos a porsche but I hear the dme takes care of all the funny stuff.
__________________
1983 944 - Project Time!
1986 944T (Stolen)
1987 944 N/A (Sold)
1984 944 N/A (Sold)
1986 944 N/A (Sold)
Old 05-11-2003, 11:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scott R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Aspen CO US
Posts: 15,152
Garage
It does not retard it enough, and you don't have a knock sensor on your NA. You would need to install one, along with a new stand alone engine management package.

I spent 12K alone to supercharge my NA only to find that the NA engine was never designed to handle boost. Somehow you will need to also get hold of a 951 head to take benefit of the sodium filled valves and other saftey features. In the end you will essentially build a 951 without the suspension. Thats why it's a waste of time and money.

Why hack a NA for 10K, when you can buy a 6K 951? It just does not make sense financially, trust me I know. Not to mention if and when you get it all done you will still have an NA that blue books at 3K, with 10K under the hood that you will loose if you ever decide to sell it.
__________________
2018 Q5 Hybrid
2005 Cayenne Turbo
2012 Panamera 4S
1980 911 SC
1999 996 Cab
Old 05-12-2003, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Petie3rd
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 4,505
Send a message via Yahoo to Mrmerlin
Hi I could also sell you a complete 951 suspension and brake setup from an 86 951 along with a bunch of turbo parts .....let me know what you want........N/A to turbo it is a quest
__________________
^^^ Stan ^^^ 2011 BMW K1300S Magma red
1988 S4 Auto , Elfenbein Perlglanz, Pearl Gray
1988 S4 5 sp, Black / Black leather/ Carmel carpet
Old 05-12-2003, 07:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gearhead290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,131
Send a message via AIM to gearhead290
Quote:
Originally posted by Stan Kolen
Hi I could also sell you a complete 951 suspension and brake setup from an 86 951 along with a bunch of turbo parts .....let me know what you want........N/A to turbo it is a quest
do you have a wiring harness, injectures, throttle body, and a MAF by chance? Private message me or email me if you do. Gearhead290@hotmail.com

Sorry I jacked the thread, I still think it would be a lot of unneeded work. But it would be nice to see it actually done, But I would say that if you want to turbo an n/a motor get the 968 motor and go from there.
__________________
95 240sx-track slut w/ too much done to list
87 944 n/a-old "toy" that broke too much
Old 05-12-2003, 02:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered Loser
 
pete13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 121
aha..... It seems the consensus is negatory........hmmmmmm.........
Want to build something up, dont know what!!!! aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
__________________
'88 944 n/a
Girlfriend (project)
Old 05-12-2003, 04:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered Loser
 
pete13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 121
please excuse the previous post, I was just venting frustration...

So, I guess that route would be an expensive/difficult/unnecessary one, which I sorta figured all along. but, I tried to drown out the little voice by making engine noises, but these replies seem to have amplified the voice to the point of making me realize that it'd be impractical, and I just shouldnt try it...

now comes the frustration part.... I'd like to build up some sort of engine myself, but I just can't think of anything to do... I don't want to sink as low as to look at a civic or similar, but I crave (inexpensive) engine tinkering!!! how about a turbo motorcycle? it's been done before....

p.s. Hey xJoshx: what kinda harley you have?? I'm thinkin of gettin a bike(either that or turbo car). Please tell me it's a sportster......
__________________
'88 944 n/a
Girlfriend (project)

Last edited by pete13; 05-12-2003 at 04:40 PM..
Old 05-12-2003, 04:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gearhead290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,131
Send a message via AIM to gearhead290
Hey man, I feel your pain. I started pulling my engine today and my dad is thinking he just wants to rebuild mine THE HORROR!!! I'm still trying to convince to let me get the 951 engine though. I kinda pulled the bastard tacktic thouh, I told him if he doesn't let me do this I 'll buy a bike and he replied with, "Your mom won't let you." So I simply said, "I'll be 18 in less than a year, she can't stop me." So something tells me I'll be able to get a bike.
__________________
95 240sx-track slut w/ too much done to list
87 944 n/a-old "toy" that broke too much
Old 05-12-2003, 06:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: www.fakelife.com
Posts: 1,673
Send a message via AIM to SlowToady
Pete, I was totally right You're having the same problem I am: You severly want to build an engine, but have nowhere to start. This has gotten me so stressed out I've put my fist through walls thinking about it.

And good idea with the bike, I was just talking to gearhead the other day about turboing a CBR600. I have full access to a fully loaded machine shop and racers/engine builders so I wouldn't too badly off, but it still would probably be very far beyond me. Man, lol, I've entertained so many ideas. My current one is dropping a VR6 motor in a small 13" jet boat. Or one of them 18 footers that has a 350 in it. lol..anyway...Just trying to say I feel your pain I guess.

No worries, the right project will come along, but I don't think this is it.

Good luck,

Slow
Old 05-12-2003, 06:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered Loser
 
pete13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 121
I just saw something interesting on discovery channel today: lawnmower racing!!!!

this could be my calling....................
__________________
'88 944 n/a
Girlfriend (project)
Old 05-13-2003, 06:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gearhead290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 1,131
Send a message via AIM to gearhead290
Quote:
Originally posted by pete13
I just saw something interesting on discovery channel today: lawnmower racing!!!!

this could be my calling....................
no way dude. I'm all about turning a Suzuki GSXR1300 into a AWD go-kart. Then, get the HKS (I think it's HKS) turbo kit for it
__________________
95 240sx-track slut w/ too much done to list
87 944 n/a-old "toy" that broke too much
Old 05-13-2003, 07:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:12 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.