“Free” ’87 924S…Am I Insane?

[OK-944]

That “free” 924S - the one which I’d advertised here for a friend awhile back but got not bites…is now sitting in my garage up on my lift. My original intention (at least as of a few days ago), was to harvest the engine and transmission…and let the rest go for scrap. A brief perusal of a few of the photos I ran with the original ad would seem to support this plan:







But - now that things have become a bit more “up close and personal” between myself and this car…I’m finding myself having a really hard time thinking about letting it go.

Thing is, what a little more digging around has revealed…is that the car has not run in at least twenty years (more on this below) - thus making the 68K miles on the ODO believable.

Furthermore, while the guards red paint is quite faded and chalky (plus the dashboard is toast - must’ve sat out in the sun), the interior very dusty and the engine bay greasy and dirty - there is no sign of interior mold or mildew, nor is the carpeting otherwise even that dirty, and aside from obviously rusted (but replaceable) components like struts and the like, and that rusty/dented fender, plus a bent front stabilizer drop-link and dented lower front facia - the chassis itself exhibits very little rust and looks to be very straight.

But what’s the deal with this car - why did it sit idle for so long? Well, I’ve discovered a broken, frayed, and de-toothed timing belt. This, along with having been told that the cylinder head had been worked on (indeed it appears to have some new valves), clearly indicates a past t-belt failure…and I’m quite certain that a previous owner, despite having made some effort to begin the repair process, ultimately gave up on this car and let it sit.

Right now I’m in the process of removing the engine (have just drained the oil - absolutely no metal bits present!)…and I’m very eager to get a good look at its insides. My thought (and hope) is that as a low mileage engine, its quite possible (both despite and because of the early t-belt failure) that it will be in great overall condition. The lower deck of the cylinder head, by the way, shows absolutely no sign of warpage, nor has it been machined.

As for my recent post about the engine being “stuck”…with the oil pan interfering with the crossmember (pulling engine out the top), and the bellhousing hung up on the torque tube - I pretty sure I can solve this by pulling the tranny (which I want to do anyway)…after which I should be able to pull the torque-tube back enough so its front end should clear the bell housing. Again, my goal is to leave the suspension and crossmember alone for now, so I can roll the car out of the garage for a bit while I dig into the engine.

Oh…and about that faded paint? Well, as luck would have it, I’d recently purchased a pretty complete paint correction/polishing kit from Chemical Guys - having thought that my ‘87NA 944 could use a bit of sprucing up. Thing is, the paint on that car is actually in nice shape…and thus I’d been feeling despondent about having “wasted” the funds for that CG kit. Well…looks like I’ll now be able to put this kit to great use!

The beauty of this situation is that I really don’t need this car - so my goal will be to have it become a long term “budget build.” This actually seems reasonable to me because I’ve got a number of used but good components leftover from my ‘87NA rebuild - parts (clutch, water pump and front rollers, tires, etc.) that I could have left alone but went ahead and replaced because that car is my daily driver. I also am thinking that I may not need to completely rebuild this (924S) engine, but will instead reseal it.

At any rate…I’ll post some more recent photos as well as updates soon. Do keep in mind that its very unlikely that my postings will ever be in the same league as those from John Jefferies, SilverLined, et al…but I’ll do my best!

[wwdwgs]

Keep it.
Restore it.
When in despair, have your favorite drink and continue.
Garage is your "escape from reality", when you feel a need to be away from "outside" issues.
It'll be a mixture of fun, frustration and feeling of reward (after any task is completed).
And, yes, you re insane!!!

[jjeffries]

If you have the space to move it indoors, that will be a start to its conservation. Plus, you already know a heck of a lot about these cars and will be able to apply all of that to this one. And you can buy one of those beautiful new dashes for it.

John

[CarGuyNeil]

It seems worthy of saving. Good on you!

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[pfarah]

Glad you're going to invest a little time into her.

[OK-944]

A bit later: Working on extracting the transmission…all went well until I’d tested the four transmission bell housing bolts (I typically test as many bolts as possible prior to starting a procedure), three of which eventually creaked into motion - but the forth…upper drivers-side allen bolt, heard it barely move but then stripped the allen receptacle…aarrrgghhh!

At the same time I noticed what looks like metal flaking from the inside wheel surfaces - and pretty much decided at that time that maybe I should, after salvaging the engine…scrap this car after all.

But that was then - and right now I’m thinking…don’t give up on this car because of one stubborn bolt! I can take my time on this - find an easy-out to use in combination with a bit of heat…and if this fails, go in with a drill.

What I keep reminding myself about deciding to scrap this car - is that once its gone…its gone!

So I will take it a little further…with my goal of spending absolutely no money on this car until I can become sufficiently convinced that it will be worth saving. In other words…the jury is still out!

In the meantime, I still want to pull the engine out the top…and will try loosening the cross-member mounted control arm pivot bolts, then removing the crossmember bolts…in hopes that I can then push the crossmember down just enough so the that oil pan will clear so I can pull the engine forward, up, and out!

[Paul Waterloo]

Why would you want to pour money into a car like that? I don't get it. So much money to make it running and looking decent again. If you really want a 924, just buy one, it would be MUCH cheaper. I'm sure it would need a lot of wrenching, so you would still have a hobby.

[OK-944]

Well that was fun! I ended up removing those control arm pivots, then the crossmember bolts, then tried like heck to remove the steering gear U-joint…but no dice. So I pushed, pulled, levered, cursed…and finally it gave way:



So now I’ll get the crossmember back in place and redo enough bits so that I can get the car off the lift and back out into the spare turnaround space of our driveway, then give the outside of the engine a decent cleaning and remove the clutch so I can get it up onto the stand…where I will then flip it over, remove the oil pan, so that I can see what’s what.

As for the rest of the car? At this point its a real tossup, and with my flatbed guy Justin living right across the road from our place - it would be so easy to just have him come get it. But…maybe not yet!

And Paul, believe me...I hear you loud and clear! Thing is, I hadn't planned to look for a 924S...but took this under my wing because I could not stand the idea that it might be crushed.

[jjeffries]

Paul, I don’t say this at all defensively, but having rescued a red 924S that was in similar shape to this one (maybe a tad better?) what struck me with mine was that what looked like a real cockroach was actually quite sound in many ways. It had no rust and the paint came back, almost miraculously, with some TLC. I DID buy mine as a way to keep myself busy and yes, it’s soaked up just as much cash as the sages on this board suggested it would. I like this narrow-body more than a regular 944, although the 951/944S2 body is my fave. In terms of not being wasteful of my resources, my goal has been to not lose money on the car while prepping it to a relatively high standard. Whether I’ll succeed remains to be seen.

Totally fair question though.
John

[jjeffries]

Look familiar? Mine as found in the summer of 2019. No rust, nor corrosion on the bumper blades. Engine mortally wounded, terrible dash and all that comes with having been off the road for at least twelve years ...

... but I wanted to save it.

John

[Paul Waterloo]

After rebuilding the engine with my son on his 2000 Audi S4 last year, it was a great project, and his car was in very nice shape prior to having to rebuild the engine, it was very expensive, but it is a twin turbo. We spent about $6K total in a donor engine, rebuilt turbos, machine shop services and new parts. When I look at the engine in the pictures above, it's going to consume at lest $2,500 on the cheap end and it looks like you would always be chasing the next thing to restore on the car.

I understand that it doesn't always make sense, but this one seems to need a lot of work, a lot of money, and in the end, it's not going to have a lot of power, albeit I'm sure it's a super fun car.

Just my $0.02. Believe me, I have spent stupid money on cars in my life. And martini's for women.

[jjeffries]

More like $5-7k on the cheap!

[OK-944]

…and so, after having spent most of yesterday under my “free” 924S - looking up at things like this:

and this:

and this:

and this:

and this:

and this:


…and getting covered with sweat, blood, PB Blaster residue and rust flakes, well, what can I say? I think its probably time to give flatbed-guy Justin a call! Ya think?

[wwdwgs]

Have your favoring drink first. Maybe, two.

[OK-944]

Then again...then again....jeeesh!

I could, I suppose...just start pulling stuff off - as in everything down to the chassis. Then it would be possible to build things back up again. I really cannot not see any other way with this car.

I could also pull stuff off and go at everything with my angle grinder and an assortment of wire cups and wheels and Roloc discs - then refinish and re-coat everything.

But wiring? Even though I'm very diligent about cleaning and, if necessary, replacing existing wiring, cannot read a wiring diagram to save my life! I'd need to leave the wiring in place and work around it - then replace what I'd need to, wire by wire...at the last minute.

Funny thing how at the end of a given day with this car I'm just ready to throw in the towel...but then...with a bit of bourbon/beer/G+T/Negroni/or what have you, a bit of reflection and philosophizing, and hopefully a bit of sleep...I get up the next morning and take another look, and
think..."I won't call Justin - just yet!"

(ps...yeah, the interior isn't too bad - but the seats? They're each rusted solid to the floor!)

(later edit) - Then again, I could simply wait for one of those “great car, just needs an engine” deals - fix up and drop in my “spare” engine and call it a day. Hmmm…this deserves a bit of thought, aided by this evening's libations. Let's see...its just a tad cool for a G+T, but maybe not cool enough for a neat bourbon. I think a Negroni would be about perfect!

[The Glademister]

Originally Posted by OK-944

Then again...then again....jeeesh!

I could, I suppose...just start pulling stuff off - as in everything down to the chassis. Then it would be possible to build things back up again. I really cannot not see any other way with this car.

I could also pull stuff off and go at everything with my angle grinder and an assortment of wire cups and wheels and Roloc discs - then refinish and re-coat everything.

But wiring? Even though I'm very diligent about cleaning and, if necessary, replacing existing wiring, cannot read a wiring diagram to save my life! I'd need to leave the wiring in place and work around it - then replace what I'd need to, wire by wire...at the last minute.

Funny thing how at the end of a given day with this car I'm just ready to throw in the towel...but then...with a bit of bourbon/beer/G+T/Negroni/or what have you, a bit of reflection and philosophizing, and hopefully a bit of sleep...I get up the next morning and take another look, and
think..."I won't call Justin - just yet!"

(ps...yeah, the interior isn't too bad - but the seats? They're each rusted solid to the floor!)

(later edit) - Then again, I could simply wait for one of those “great car, just needs an engine” deals - fix up and drop in my “spare” engine and call it a day. Hmmm…this deserves a bit of thought, aided by this evening's libations. Let's see...its just a tad cool for a G+T, but maybe not cool enough for a neat bourbon. I think a Negroni would be about perfect!

At the beginning of Covid I was given a free '83 944 from a garage shop owner. It was a real horror show with head lights gutted (some janky aftermarket bulbs and lenses) seat rails rusted to the floor (I had to sawzaw to seat frames apart) horribly cracked dash, moldy interior (OE brown but painted over black) exterior was completely covered with plasti-dip black (OE guards red), etc. etc.

I worked hard at getting the engine running with new injector harness, ignition parts, crank sensors, oil change, fuel filter, etc. I also doctored up the interior with parts from a 924S. I replaced the complete head light system and almost had that working.

However...

The front wiring harness began to leak water which informed me that car had probably been flooded. Couple that with the rings failing while cranking and seizing the engine... that was the death nail. That '83 has been a real good source for parts on two subsequent 944 projects. All the new ignition parts, the wind shield and sun roof have been moved to a '87 951 saving quite a bit of cash. I'm still pulling parts for some exterior issues on a '87 944 base.

It some way that car lives on in those other Porsches so it's much like an organ donor.

[mazdaverx7]

Honestly, that car would be an incredibly fun car to rebuild. The corrosion isn't awful and the damaged body parts can be swapped out with ones that are not. Will it be frustrating at times, yes. But will it be fun and enjoyable to restore, more than you know. I wouldn't have the heart to scrap the car. It was free, so you're already ahead of the game. I wouldn't hesitate for one minute on restoring it to a nice driver.

[OK-944]

Postscript: She left me yesterday. It was time. Too many other irons in the fire at this point…house and yard projects, raising our rescue pup, and I really want to get back into my large format (film and darkroom) photography, which I’d retired from as a business recently but is still a passion at least equal to that of fixing up and driving 944’s. I also design and build large format film cameras, and have a few more of these in me yet!

Plus there is a bit of “marital harmony” to consider. Although my dear wife has tried her best to be considerate, she rightly recognizes that this 924S would require lots of time and resources (as had my ‘87NA), which, given that she will soon retire from full time work as a nurse practitioner (and a good one at that - voted 2015’s “Vermont Clinician Of The Year”), and that she and I love to hike, paddle, travel and explore, I owe it to us to help keep our “retirement dreams” alive.

Finally, I owe it to my 1987NA, which is my daily driver, to keep it in top shape for the road ahead.

But still, it was very sad to see this particular 924S go. Then again…it looks like there is a very good chance that my haul-guy Justin (who is very into fixing up cars), or someone in his family, may take this on as a project, with my agreement to help out on occasion as needed. So my fingers are crossed that this somewhat humble but still potentially great little car may yet ride again!

In the meantime, many thanks to all for the thoughtful advice, moral support, and reality checks!

(Later Edit: If Justin or someone else decides to move forward with this car...it will need a repaint, because while the oxidation was pretty easy to remove (I tried rubbing out a spot), this only made the truly deep defects more visible).

[jjeffries]

OK944 - understandable and good common sense decision. At a certain point, life is too short for such follies. How about some pics of your rescue dawg?

John

[OK-944]

I still feel badly that I'm not saving that 924S. If I had a few less other irons in the fire at this point, I could imagine myself taking that car right down to metal with the windows out - and starting from zero to create what would essentially be a new car. Would be great!

At any rate, many thanks for your support...and yes - I will post some pix of Lena soon!