https://cpa-pca.org/events/2024/4-24/swap/index.html

Welcome to the World’s Largest Porsche-Only Swap Meet!
Swap Chairman Steve Baun

The Central PA Region of the Porsche Club of America is once again bringing its world-famous Porsche-Only Swap Meet to Carlisle Fairgrounds, Carlisle Pennsylvania, on Saturday, April 27, 2024. This is without exaggeration the largest event of its kind on the planet. It typically brings nearly 650 vendors, around 1,000 Porsches, and over 6,000 visitors from all over the world together every year. If you’re seeking an obscure Porsche or an obscure part for your Porsche, this is your best chance to find it. Every dealer and Porsche packrat in a 250-mile radius will be bringing their odds and ends for sale or swap. You’ll see exotic Porsches found nowhere this side of Stuttgart, and Porsche personalities ranging from PCA muckety-mucks to (sometimes) celebrities like Jerry Seinfeld. As always, we’ll feature a People’s Choice Concours, too!

so what did you find you really need in way of special tools? is there a certain type of belt tensioner recommended?
Im pretty ok normally with just adjusting belt tension by feel, because I'm a millwright I've had quite a bit of experience changing belts but of course I dont want an issue of a valve / piston crash..
. I may be able to borrow one when I get there, this is a tool obviously not needed often so maybe people are just buying them as needed and maybe selling them or loaning them to friends after..

the other tool to lock the flywheel i could buy but it didn't seem like it would be too hard to lock the flywheel, maybe by welding up something similar, a hunk of ring gear and a flat plate.. It seems its just being locked during installation to keep the engine on its timing mark, right?

i got the belts, some various seals the cover gasket to take the timing cover off, I might need to take stock and see what else I need. If I get stalled I'm not really up against time.. just don't want it all apart so long i loose track of stuff..Im ok with just "over the summer" as a timeline.

thought I'd flush the rad and replace hoses, so I I thought I might pull the rad first and any fans..pull the starter out for inspection and lube etc.. maybe with the rad out , I figure it'll just be easier to see, then do some cleaning. If I go back later and do the waterpump would that mean a lot of wasted time? of course draining the rad again if I fill it..

maybe I can get some of the rad flush stuff , hook it to a pump , set it in a plastic bin and let it sit there recirculating a day or two? would too long rot the rad out? the one in my volvo plugged so I tried that.. I tried vinegar too.. it didnt really help a lot.. maybe loosened it up..
with that one I unsoldered the top and bottom, it did work out well.. i cut a wood stick to fit the fins and carefully pushed it through each one , That was really what it needed.. the rad worked way better after that. I think if I did that all again I'd just unsolder either the top or bottom of it and just flush out the rest after poking out the stuff..
with the volvo one I pressure tested in a sink and went back and soldered up a few pinholes then sprayed it with epoxy to look nice, not the fins too much, it worked out.. the pressure bottle was obsolete so I made one out of copper tubing and fitted an end on it for the cap, that was ok but in the porsch there may not be extra room.. the bottle is ok but i have seen them deteriorate and blow, because they do hold some pressure, are others seeing their water reservoirs crack up?

I took the one from my ford van in to a rad shop , they did have the solder bath thing to take them apart easier, i just used a torch, they immerse the whole thing in molten solder.. anyway the rad shop just sold me an aluminum one , it worked ok.. I set the copper one aside knowing it can be cleaned if it comes to that.


The only tensioner I'm familiar with using really is the brekoflex meter.. It works by sensing the vibrations and from the vibration frequency belt tension can be determined, In most cases I'd just set the tension by feel. 1/4 turn method basically, but maybe i need more accuracy..

I assume if I recheck my work its probably not going to fall off.. I assume I can do most of this work and then worry about the adjustment just before the cover is reinstalled so maybe I don't need to spend on that thing yet?

If I do shop for one is there a personal favorite or one that is cheaper and will suffice?

I think I need a thin metric wrench, thought I can probably grind one thin enough... pin wrenches and stuff like that I'll have or can just make up.. I have all the common tools..

i tension with the twist method and then fine tune with an automotive stethoscope.

However if you haven't heard of the Arnworx tool, check it out here: https://www.*****************.com/Belt-Tensioning-Tool-p/awx-920v6.htm

Regarding hershey, you could score some nice used parts and some nice accessories. There aren't as many 944 items as there are newer Porsche models. it is still fun and there are a ton of old porsche's in the car corral and parking areas.

You can weld, therefore you can easily make a flywheel lock by yourself. That a plus.

The coolant expansion tank is relatively solid. I've never heard any complaints about it from my "944" friends.

Adredas on youtube explains well about tensioning Timing and Balance belts. A thousand-dollar tool is too much. There are cheaper versions (I don't remember the price) and really simple plastic ones, which are good for a few times.

Can't wait to be able to attend this again..... 2025 I will be back on the East Coast. FOR GOOD!

When using a stethoscope to adjust belts, I listen to the water pump housing near the pulley. Too loose and the belt flops when you gun it, too tight and it whines and wears the bearing too much. For the balance belt, listen to the adjustment pulley in the same way. I suppose the tension gauge yields the same result.

Also if you want a cheap belt tension tool, look at krikit. Buyer beware. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/682726-belt-tension-gauge-tool-krickit-cricket.html

Lastly herre are the specialty tools I have acquired over the years. I think the wrenches and flywheel lock are from Arnworx.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1711193807.jpg

Something that bothers me about the Arnnworx tension setting gauge (I have version 6.1)...which is that the two "sleds" that rest on top of the t-belt get somewhat squeezed between the belt and the top of the rear plastic wp/belt/roller housing - causing the t-belt to deflect.

I'd be very curious to know if others here might have a comment on this.

At any rate...it is because of the "Arnnworx squeeze" that I ultimately rely on a "three tiered" method of "pluck, twist, and spin." Pluck, as in like a guitar string (watch Van Svenson's video for a nice description). Twist, as in...90 degrees. And spin...as in, spinning the water pump pulley by hand - with a cool engine and gripping the outer diameter of the pulley (unlike Edredas which shows gripping slightly less than this full diameter).

None of those do I trust completely by themselves...but all of them together and I'm good to go!

But again...any others have the same "issue" with their Arnnworx tool?

That is how I did mine. 90 degrees on timing belt, 120 on the balance belt. The balance belt feels almost too loose. The idlers on the timing belt on the S2 do a good job keeping the timing belt in place. Takes a couple hundred miles to settle in.

When I get the car back to VA I should be at about 1500 miles, and I am taking the car into my trusted Porsche Mechanic to go over the car and check for belt tension. After that I am not going to worry for the next 30K miles or 5 years. Yeah Yeah, I know CW says 3 years.....

At some point every Spring I'll remove both (upper and lower) wp/belt/roller covers...to re-check tension - but as much to also just get a look at things in general to see that all is well...that there is no ingress of oil or dirt from anyplace, that the rollers and wp all feel tight. I'll also watch this area while open with the engine running and gun the rpms by hand to see if anything looks amiss. Just for a bit of piece of mind I guess!

I've always thought of how nice it would be to have clear plastic/acrylic front covers to at least make the visual inspection process easier!

This is from Gates website:

91107 KRIKIT
Product # 74010071

Proper tension, installation and maintenance can extend belt life and reduce costly downtime. Gates® Krikit gauges provide a simple and quick way to measure belt tension on V or V-ribbed belts to ensure long belt life and optimal belt drive performance.

Provides a quick and easy way to check belt tension.
Not recommended for timing belts.

Got the Krikit first...then the 928 tool. Never trusted either of those.

What about that device someone here invented and 3-D printed - used in combination with a torque wrench set to a certain value...which would make its "click" at a specific degree of deflection? Hmmm...I think I might trust the "moving vane indicator" type of torque wrench for this application - and not the "clicker."

Why do we need a tool? Why can't we just press on the belt midway and observe or even measure the belts deflection?

If the belt is too loose it can jump timing or even come off.

If the belt is too tight it could break or wear out the roller bearings too quickly.

If a belt is too tight and a bearing overheats and seizes it could cause the belt to come off.

If the belt comes off or breaks the valves will be bent when they hit the pistons.

DJ,
I know these possible outcomes, but the question was about the easier method of measuring belt's tightness by its deflection under "normal" (define that!) pressure.
Let's say that someone installed TB or BB with the proper tool (assuming Porsche's) and, then, measure deflection?
Assuming that the initial installation is correct, the deflection method must give measurable and correct value.

I have done this a few times so I am far from an expert. However Clarks states the initial adjustment is a 1/4 twist of the belt. I found this to not be very accurate, the belt might be too loose and slap or to tight and the WP would whine. So I developed my own stethoscope method to fine tune it. I have not tried to verify this with the 9201 tool.

Timing Belt and Balance Shaft Belt Tensioning

Initial Tensioning on Belt Installation (1983 -1986 Model Cars Without Spring Tensioner)

Pre-tension the camshaft belt by turning the tensioning roller eccentric nut (thin 24 mm or thin 27 mm open end wrench) counter-clockwise until the belt can be twisted 90° using the thumb and forefinger. This should be checked at the midpoint between the cam sprocket and the crankshaft sprocket. Tighten the tensioning roller locknut to 45 Nm (33 ft-lbs). Apply counter-torque to the tensioning roller eccentric nut while tightening locknut to prevent altering the belt tension.

Note: Originally, this was the only method of tensioning used on 928s and 924s. I know of several shops that have never purchase Special Tool 9201 and use this method on 944s as well. However, it is very risky and I strongly recommend checking the belt with the factory tensioning gage.

often what I will see in machine adjustment manuals is a reference to a fish scale deflection. You just attach a spring loaded fish scale to a predefined position, like mid-way of the longest track where there is no pulley.. or similar..

that way a value ( pounds or KG) of pull, can deflect the belt , for example, "1/2" deflection with a 30 pound pull midspan of the belt"

It may not be the ideal or most exact method but this method is often a written way to express tension to machinery technicians. The 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn method, or "thwapping" the belt with your finger, or the stethoscope method can be used additionally but these methods are more open to a particular person's individual feel and interpretation, than by way of reading a fish scale. - because the fish scale although perhaps not as accurate, is numerically quantifiable.

I have a little electronic scale used to check the weight of bags prior to arrival at an airport, that might work perfectly for this.. Likely lots here own one of those..

I was thinking one might use a proper factory gauge to obtain a fish scale deflection value, ( or have it done by a shop)

- Then upon rechecking they could at least have an actual measurement and perhaps less guesswork. maybe that method could be a way of rechecking and keeping an eye on things.

How about a WARNING INDICATOR?
I got to thinking it might be possible to create a microswitch that would activate should the belt come a bit too lose, maybe it could set off a light or buzzer to alarm the driver.

It could be set to activate a simple "holding circuit" with the warning so that in the event it gets triggered, that it needs to be reset ( and presumably examined) to get the light out.

My idea here is that it would only come on in the even the belt was loose enough to whip against and trigger the microswitch.
Not sure if there is room in there but a microswitch isn't too large.. I'm just thinking out loud basically.. but maybe it makes sense as a bit of added insurance.

Do others here think a fish scale can be used to quantify tension? Or would this be impractical due to obstacles such as the cover?

I'm not making the argument that proper tools are not necessary or that the fish scale is accurate, but maybe it's an additional reference that can be used for the purpose of monitoring belt tension at intervals. Pulling the cover periodically makes sense .

thanks to others for all this great info. I hadn't heard of the stethoscope method but do own one, so that helps.. I was not aware that the seals for the balancer were directional and that sounds like an easy detail for the unwary to miss.

tension indicator with a warning lamp is possible if your car has a tensioner - less tension, more tensioner "arm" deflection, switch is triggered. but..
there's always a "but".... upon deceleration, TB's tension would drop, right? Switch may only work with stable rpm's, like an idle.
switch detecting a wobble won't work well. My TB was replaced, and idle roller was incorrect (the one between camshaft sprocket and upper balance shaft). The stretch of TB between camshaft and crank pulley was wobbling.
After installing a correct idler (46mm or so), the wobble disappeared, and "moved" to the area below camshaft and WP.
You can't fit fish scale in the belts' area and the scales may not be precise.

Folks you are a wealth of knowledge, I would like to tap into. My car is an 1986NA. My car is in need of belts and the front seals replaced. I have quite a bit of oil leaking. Also, is it possible to have the balance shaft 180 degree off? Without taking everything apart. How do I know which water pump roller I have. Pelican parts list different 2 kits, defined by 32mm or 46mm. My goal is to do the belts, water pump, and all the necessary seals.

old water pumps are "equipped" with smaller, 32mm roller (situated between cam sprocket and upper balance sprocket), the newer (updated?) water pumps are designed for a larger roller (46mm).
I also didn't know about this, and installed new WP with old roller. Later, I noticed that this roller "doesn't do nothing" and TB (timing belt) wobbles.
When I installed a proper 46mm roller, the wobble "transferred" to the other span of TB - below cam sprocket (left side, if you look at the engine from the front).
you can measure the diameter of that roller. Either way, the correct roller should touch the TB.
Yes, you could have balance shafts installed 180 opposite.
watch this video - THE BEST VIDEO FOR BALANCE BELT REPLACEMENT on YT.
I had to touch TB and BB 4 times because I didn't think about front end seals at all and some other mistakes on my end.
After vigorous cleaning, the front was still oily and only then I decided to replace all seals/gaskets (front end, oil/cooland radiator, intake, oil tube, camshaft housing, fuel injectors). I also installed wrong seal on camshaft and it leaked, which drove me mad.