Snow driving

[Leigh 13]

Well, the snowstorm last night caught me by surprise and I had to drive my 944 home from work. It was only the second time I drove it in the snow--after the first and a few 180's on the Parkway, I swore I would never do it again. Unfortunately, I recently retired my winter car in hopes that we'd seen the last snowfall of the season. No such luck!

Luckily, I made it home safely, driving at less than 10mph the whole way. The last half-mile was the worst as I slid off the road two or three times, each time in a sideways slide that involved no fishtailing.

I'm sure ice tires would have been much better than my all-season Goodyears, but beyond that I wonder if there was anything else I could have done. Even with a full tank of gas weighing the car down, I thought I was going to slide back down when going up even the slightest of hills.

Driving in a higher gear helped to keep the wheels from slipping, since there was less torque driving them. Does anyone have any other tips or suggestions for snow driving a 944?

Thanks-

Leigh

[Leigh 13]

Oh...I wanted to add-

I passed a beautiful red 951 going the other way on the road last night. We shared an enthusiastic thumbs-up as we held our own in a sea of SUV's...

Glad to know there are more of us out there!

[todd951]

Well, you really do need a good set of winter tires. There was a column in the March issue of Car and Driver about how important a good set of winter tires are to getting traction in the snow. The conclusion was that good snow tires are more important than 4- or AWD for getting around in the snow. Their 911 and 318i which were rear wheel drive but had snow tires performed much better (subjectively) than their Quattro TT with summer tires.
A limited slip differential would help things too, but if you're going to be doing much driving in the snow your money would be better spent first on some snow tires.

[Obin Robinson]

i enjoy doing what Jess calls "p-turns". you basically go through an EMPTY parking lot, crank the wheel, and nail the gas. you leave a big letter "p" in the snow if you do it right.

loads of fun!

obin

[Bongo Fury]

I live in Nebraska so there is usually snow most of the winter. This is my first winter with my 86 944 NA and have to say it handles a lot better than I thought it would. The last couple snow falls I planned on getting 1 or 2 70lb. sandbags from the local Menards ($2 ea I think) and putting them in the hatch back by the wheels, but I haven't done it yet. Doing that should help with the sliding of at least the rear wheels and sliding down hills. The one surprise I have had is that when it does slide it is generally all 4 wheels and not just the rear or front, but luckily it is easy to get control back.
I currently have Cooper GTS m+s tires on the car, which came with the car when I bought it and they are at least 10yrs old and hard and not very sticky. The tires also have depressions in them from sitting in the previous owners garage for so long and not driven very much. So as soon as I get some bucks I will get some new tires which should help a lot.

[porsche1987_944s]

I live in nebraska also, and have found snow to be no problem as long as i have enough ground clearance to get through it,and as long as i dont have to stop on an incline, i currently have pirelli p4000's. i plan on a set of blizzaks for next winter just to make it a little easier and safer.

[todd951]

You may want to consider getting something other than Blizzaks. Read Pilot's comments about snow tires in this topic:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum5/HTML/000975.html

[cyclemike]

Leigh, tell me about it. I didn't get done work until after 4:00 yesterday and the normal 5min ride home took 25. I live in DE and we had close to 6in by the afternoon. My 951 handles absolutely miserable in the snow and ice. I had to keep it in second the whole way home. I think it would do much better with a set of those snow straps however considering the amount of snow we get here it's probably not worth it.

Mike

[This message has been edited by cyclemike (edited 02-23-2001).]

[jwn]

As a chicagoan, I drive in kinda messy weather alot. When I first got my 944 it had Cooper Cobra tires and was terrible to drive in the snow (they were 225/60-R15's). We changed them to Yoko AVS 215's and the car handles pretty good in snow, less than 3 inches of snow that is, when we got blasted last December (42 inches of snow that month) there was no way to get it out of the garage...

[Leigh 13]

The funny thing about the snow troubles I have had is that I bought an extra set of cookie cutters last year simply to avoid this.

I had planned on getting a set of snow tires to mount on my extra wheels permanently, and simply swapping the wheels with my good set for the winter. However, the used wheels I bought came mounted with a decent set of Pirellis, and I couldn't bear to just toss them! Guess I'll have to try and wear them out so that I can go ahead with the snow tires next winter...

[diverdan]

Wide tires suck in the snow!!!!!!!!!
Go for narrow winter compound tires. The 951 equipped in this manner is an AWESOME snow machine particulary since one can stay off boost and enjoy the marvels of low torque. Ground clearance is the only drawback. 185 cross section is more than enough and the taller the better!

Dan

[AMCPorsche924Powerhaus!]

go for studs if it is legal and IF there is any hard packed snow or ice
Studs won't do anything in mushy snow but on really hard packed and ice there is no comparison with studs.
There not expensive to get studded, just gotta find tires, which shouldn't be hard to find.
Even if it is illegal find out what they can do to you, if its a 50 dollar ticket take the chance, your car is worth more than 50 bucks.

[951carter]

i had to drive through that snow with my bfg R1's on the car(no tread)! that was pretty fun.

[Lawrence Coppari]

My 86T is my snow car. It has execellent weight distribution and a limited slip rear end. So long as I stay off the boost, it is just fine. Next time it snows, go to a parking lot away from light poles and get some practice. The cars are very good in the snow.

[Leigh 13]

Originally posted by Lawrence Coppari:
Next time it snows, go to a parking lot away from light poles and get some practice. The cars are very good in the snow.

I dunno if I can agree with that. All the practice in the world can't help you if your car won't make it up a 5% grade at 10mph. Same goes for the sideways slides that tend to happen, regardless of speed or acceleration.
I've pulled some fun 360's with the best of them in parking lots, but that really only helps you get used to controlling a skid. I think ice tires look like the only answer.

BTW, what are studded tires?


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Everybody in the world is bent.

[lm6y]

Studs are metal "spikes" that screw into the tread of a tire.

[AMCPorsche924Powerhaus!]

They aren't spikes really, they aren't big, they arent screwed into the tires, and they're not that big scary monster that people believe them to be. Its some sort of propaganda that people get from somwhere.
They're these tiny little metal things that are shot into the tire wtih a pneumatic tool. They are studs, not spikes, meaning they aren't pointy sharp, but a stud.
They aren't what most people think they are, you don't get caught on metal bridges or anything with them on, they are harmless, you would have to see a studded tire.
I think people confuse them with the type of tires people use in ice racing, those are huge spikes, these studs are about 2 or 3mm diameter, like little cylinders.
Can't get your tires studed unless you buy NEW studdable tires, which are available from michelin etc, and the studdable tires aren't any more than a good winter tire, because usally a good winter tire has the option of studs on it anyway, or at least a good winter tire is in the same price range as the stud one.
Best way to go is to get SNOW tires that you can put studs in for the ice, as opposed to getting just ice tires, because the ice tires won't help as much in the snow.

[AMCPorsche924Powerhaus!]

>>>>>I dunno if I can agree with that. All the practice in the world can't help you if your car won't make it up a 5% grade at 10mph. Same goes for the sideways slides that tend to happen, regardless of speed or acceleration.<<<<<

What Lawrence is saying, is what you're not realiszing is that you're not going to find a better handling rear wheel drive car out there than a 50/50 type like the 944.
There is no car that handles excellent in the winter. The 944 is far from being one of the "worser" handling winter cars, it should be one of the best.
If you think the 944 is bad, then any other car you drive should be much worse (except that front wheel drives are better in ONE situation I can think of; uphill), so don't drive any other cars if you are spinning in this sort of car!
Try something like a supra, no weight at the back, and rear wheel drive, or try downshifting in a front wheel drive car, SLIDE.
If your going up a lot of hills front wheel drive cars are better, or a 911 with all the weight in one spot, but as for ease getting into a slide the 944 is more resistant, and as for getting out of a slide the 944 should be easier.
Front wheel drive is good for up hills, but not for downhills, and not for downshifting.
You have a lot of engine braking and wieght up front in a front wheel drive car causing the front to give and slide when you decel, plus the wieght transfers to the front when you brake, giving it even more wheel slow down up front.
Not to mention that on most front wheel drive cars you have discs up front drums at the back so that makes it even more vulnerable to sliding since it is more effective up front than the back, causing it to give (lose control) at the front wheels.
Any time you have more effectiveness at one set of wheels, that means they are going to lock up first, and a 911 isn't as bad since when you brake wight goes to the front, but a front wheel drive car, EVERYTHING is transfered and effective up front, nothing at the back, not one thing.



[This message has been edited by AMCPorsche924Powerhaus! (edited 03-02-2001).]

[Leigh 13]

Thanks for the clarification, AMC. When I first started the thread, I was hoping to get some tips from anyone who's had good success with the 944 in the snow. What I've learned is that snow tires are key, and driving slow with a full tank of gas is about the best one can do. My 944 is the first RWD car I have ever owned, so I guess it should be no surprise that it is much worse in the snow than all the FWD cars I've had in the past.

Aside from the 4WD trucks I've taken in the snow, the best I've ever driven was my old '88 Toyota Tercel hatchback. It was a 5-speed with tires that were about as wide as the ones on my mountain bike! That thing was great in the snow, cutting through just about anything and handling great despite that fact that it weighed next to nothing. It was also nice to have a car that I didn't worry about dinging up or catching a curb with now and again!

I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone in the forum.

[AMCPorsche924Powerhaus!]

Yes a full gas tank is always good, not only for the weight but also because of water that gets in your tank from condensation. The more gas the more dilute the water, or the more concentrated the gas, whatever way you want to look at it. You can put sand bags in where your secret compartments are in your trunk, those wheel well areas.

Studs on a snow tire have no disadvantage, other than if you are on dry pavement, the car won't handle as good, but that is immaterial since you won't be pushing the car to the limit in the winter on turns anyway, and there usually isn't dry pavement.
If you find a snow tire that is really good, and then there is a crappy snow tire with the option of studs, then your choice will have to be based on this: how much hard packed snow and ice there is.
A really good snow tire will not do anything for you when you are on ice or very hard packed snow....there are specially designed tires that handle ice well though, but then you won't get good snow tires. You can't get a tire that combine good snow traction and good ice traction, UNLESS you get the studs.
That is why I recommend a very good snow tire with studs, it is the best combination.
There is BS out there that if all the cars have studs on them then the roads will wear down faster, and that is why it is illegal to have studs in some places. True, but they rebuild the roads anyway even if they don't need it (they need to make money, roadworkers don't make money if they don't rebuild roads), your paying for taxes. And even if it was true that if you put studs on your car it would help wear the roads, 1 out of a million putting studs on there car, who cares, it is your safety, and you pay for road repaving in taxes etc. I bet a car with studs on it does less harm to the roads than if some car that doesn't have studs on it smashes into signs. The signs that they smash into probably cost as much as 2000 people with studs on their cars cost the city for road repair. Also, not many people know about studded tires, so if you run with studs, its not going to wear the roads down faster, only if like every single person uses studs.
Studs help clean the roads also.



[This message has been edited by AMCPorsche924Powerhaus! (edited 03-05-2001).]