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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Stockbridge, GA, US
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Another nitrous story!!
Well i am a proud bottle feeder now!!
Ive done a lot of performance mods to my 944 N/A and i can bet it will keep up with or maybe out run a 951. My car was pretty quick before the nitrous (quick for a N/A)....but now i can say its FAST!! Ive got the 70 hp jet on there and with these mods... -msds intake -test pipe -msds headers -60,000 volt coil -5 lbs flywheel -stage III clutch -port and polish -three angle valve grind Ive never driven a 951, but my dad owned one and he said he thinks my N/A will give it a good run for the money! (a stock 951 not a super 951  )I did some 0-60 times ...before the nitrous i was in the high sevens ...with nitrous online im under six seconds. im very impressed with the nitrous, but i would not recommend it to another 84 944 without doing the rebuilding ive done. (engine, head gasket, clutch, torque tube, cv joints) i know porscheboi and scottewid were always telling me about nitrous on the 944 but i never imagined that it would push me back in the seat like it does!!! ------------------ Por-sha ...please say it right.. |
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03-05-2001, 06:24 PM
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Location: Stockbridge, GA, US
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oh yeah....im about to get my cam grinded hotter....does anybody know where to get good prices on lifters???
Thanks Brian ------------------ Por-sha ...please say it right.. |
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03-05-2001, 06:25 PM
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I'm a firm believer in the potential of 944 NAs, but even firmer into 944 turbos!
I think a helthy 944 NA engine won't have too much trouble handling nitrous, without any of the "mods" you've done. We have lower compression in the states, but the headers are the same to the best of my knowledge, as the higher compression european models. It's not too hard to see 944 NAs at over 250+miles on the clock, crank is the same as turbos, and I could go on... Again, I have an 84 myself, and love the car, enjoy driving it, etc. but giving a 951 a run for the $? I don't think so!!! Look at all you've done, for that you could've picked up a 944 turbo, and had A LOT of money to spare. 0-60 in under 6 secs? How much nitrous are you pushing? (is it a 70hp shot?). That's about 50% more power, without upgrading things like the con-rods, or the pistons, or replacing bearings, I'd be cautious, don't get too caught up. I'd be looking into suspension upgrades right about now  OK, now on the other hand, I've thought about nitrous myself. Don't think I'd do it, but I don't think it's unsafe, given that the system is installed correctly. As I've stated earlier, just don't get too caught up. Remember all that extra power you're pushing, stresses everything from the crank bearings to the rear wheel bearings! What's a stage III clutch? I think you can get lifters from Pelican at a decent price. PS: If whomever didn't replace your lifters, when you got the valve job, I wouldn't keep going there, unless you ran the car low on oil or something similar. Ahmet ------------------ It's all the driver... |
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03-05-2001, 07:35 PM
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Location: Stockbridge, GA, US
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Yes ...i am not kidding ...i will bet anything that my 944 N/A will keep up with a turbo...
And yes...i know ive spent a lot of money on my car...and yes i know for the same amount of money i would have a lot more power in a 951... ...BUT im 21 yrs old and im a full time college student...have you any idea what the insurance rates are for that car for somebody my age!! Ive had my car for 5 yrs now and i dont think i could ever sell it. Maybe later when im out of school ill buy a 951 but keep my car. Everybody always says "buy a 951" , but those are people that have a full time job or have their moms and dads pay insurance. Im doing the best i can with my "wannabe951" . My dad has owned a 914, 911, and a 944 turbo. And he's raced all three. He also worked for jason laus race team for 911 turbos. I believe in his opinion by saying that a 70-shot N/A will run with a 951!! as far as acceleration goes. Dont get me wrong ..i believe that the 951 is by far a better designed car, but in my situation the N/A is perfect for me and my hobby. Basically tweaking and having fun with what ive got. so until im out on my own like most of you 951 owners ill just stick to my gradual modifications. thanks ------------------ Por-sha ...please say it right.. |
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03-05-2001, 08:14 PM
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Posts: 817
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an early 951 has 70hp more than a 944
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03-05-2001, 10:00 PM
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some people like NA because a turbo is cheating.....but then again, so is nitrous....
I would go all out on a 944 NA for very long duration/high lift cam, if available, programable ignition timing along with adjustable or automatic retardcam sprocket if available, and that will give it lots of high end roar. And your not cheating. |
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03-06-2001, 02:01 AM
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Location: bergen county
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wow!! my response to each post...
I'd agree with brian(about running a stock 951 for the money)on how his setup is..i do believe him(quarter mile run though)..not more than that..IMO...my own comparison to this is when i ran both my previous n/a 944 and my 951...an n/a ran a 16.5 compared to a 14.9 951(my e.t)too bad i didn't put a spray on the N/A..can i drive your car scott??or brian???..turbo lag plays a big part on the quartermile run..so you gotta be good driving that 951 to achieve 14.4....ran my 951 again last sat.with a bad reaction time(1.5)(was sleeping at the line)  .. i ran a 13.133...about the nitrous you can only use it for a good 15 sec.on a quartermile track(my case)(but depends on how ur using it)between turbocharging/supercharging and nitrous on a stock motor(n/a i'm talking about) i'd go nitrous.but again the power runs out when bottles empty...turbo stresses the engine more than the nitrous...i raced a quartermile and not road course yet..but will be doing it this year..when i join the PCAclub then that will be the time for me to start paying attention and start uprgarding my suspension..i have the MO30 option in my car right now so i am not that worried on the suspension upgrade yet(so correct me on this)... why is turbo and nitrous cheating??? in what way?? it always happens to me when i race someone..they always tell me to give them a brake and a plus...and when they loose they have too many excuses...that my car is turbocharged..and if they win they will say that they beat a turbocharged car...is it fair to say that with a plus and not a heads up race a real race?? if given a change to race someone what is it that you have to check on your opponent..i guess first you have to know is what type of car your going against with...am i right?? now my question. why isn't a high duration and high lift programmable ignition,sprocket cheating on an n/a car?isn't that also an uprgrade on an n/a car....isn't that cheating also?? tell me whos' cheating on this setup on both 2.5 engine... FORCED INDUCTION N/A stock cam CAM (aftermarket) stock ignition Programmable ign.(a/m) stock cam sprocket adjustable sprocket how fast??? how fast??? all stock stock?? (nope) cheating???nope cheating??yes NO OFFENSE...PEACE!! I GUESS TO EACH HIS OWN...JUST my 0.02 cent.. |
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03-06-2001, 05:39 AM
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Hey, congratulations Brian! So the install wasn't that bad afterall, right?!
I definitely agree, now that I have a 951, that the na on nitrous is very close to a stock turbo in straight line acceleration. I think the 951 is still a tad faster, though, but I only used the 60hp jet, so the 75hp probably would make em dead even. Anyway, I'm no longer part of the nitrous crowd: sad to say I sold my 1984 na this weekend, and took out the nitrous prior to listing it. I almost decided not to sell it, but it seemed silly to have so many cars (that made four, for my wife and me), and I could use the money anyway. I think I'll sell the nitrous on ebay because the chipped 951 has more than enough power for me. If anyone on this board is interested let me know. I've got two 10lb tanks, the solenoids & hoses, a bottle heater, and a remote bottle opener valve still in the blister pack (never got around to installing it)for $500. (paid $420 for the kit with one bottle, $170 for extra 10lb bottle, $120 for heater, and $150 for the remote bottle valve opener) Congrats once again Brian, and don't get greedy! 75hp is the max you should go with a dry kit and stock pistons/rods! |
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03-06-2001, 08:24 AM
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The first thing you should note, is that cheaters will always be in denial
If you cheated on an exam, would you admit? no not right away if you had a chance out. Denial. If it isn't cheating to have a turbo on a car, then what would you call someone if they pulled up in 1500 CC motorbike and raced you? It's a vehicle, its got two wheels, so, thats not cheating since a turbo isn't, since nothing is cheating. it would kick your ass by a long shot, and you would say "yeah but thats a motor bike" "YEAH WELL THATS A TURBO" And what if you brought 15 people along in your car, and at the stop light you told them to get out and push the car when it turned green as you floored it, would that not be cheating? No one says you can't do it, so it must be ok. Actually i am just teasing, I believe in anything modded to a car, as long as its car against car, or car against truck. On my car i would only put mods on that are not going to blow my pistons up etc., and if the other guy wants to put a mod on that will blow his pistons up 15 seconds after the race then fine, because I don't really give a crap about stop light drag racing, its all over when you pull up beside them with a different situation, such as a turn, or maybe the rpms your car is at. Its not as if that person that beat you at the stop light can go to far away from you, its not one race and thats it, you can pull up to him further down the road with your calculation already figured out, so that you WILL win. For example, some stang beats you at the light, but when is the race officially over? No one ended it, so just let the stang beat you, but when you both pull up at the next light and you are rolling through at 20 miles an hour , cause it just turned green, your turbo will beat him since you have bypassed your lag this way. But hell anyone driving a 944 shouldn't be at stoplights, they should be enjoying twisty country roads in the mountains. I don't think doing drags frequently with a 944 gives Porsche a very good reputation. Sure if you want to test your car once in a while, but don't make your car into a drag, you'll have more fun if you spend some money on the suspension and be able to blow cars off the turns even better, and its funner, what skill does it take to press the gas pedal and let out the clutch? If you had traction control I would bash draging even more, no skill at all Sometimes if you up a turbo too much, your tires just spin, and you can't do turns anymore, because your tires just spin all the way around the turn when your flooring it. Gotta get huge wheels etc with upping a turbo, and that will probably mean chromy ricer wheels since you already spent all your money on your turbo and now have to buy big cheap wheels. Peace out.  [This message has been edited by AMCPorsche924Powerhaus! (edited 03-06-2001).] |
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03-06-2001, 08:31 AM
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
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Cheating schmeating. The only people who complain about cheaters are the ones who lose to them. Basically, "cheating" is anything you do to your car to make it faster. Big deal, we all do that. Is it cheating to have anything other than a bone stock, normally aspirated four-banger? Are Z-28s cheating b/c they've got four extra cylinders? Are 951s cheating b/c they have turbos? Cheating only matters if you're racing in a class that allows limited modifications. Otherwise, cheating has no real world meaning; it's just another way of saying, "that bastard made his car faster than mine... whhaaaaaaa..."
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03-06-2001, 09:49 AM
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Location: bergen county
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JUST MY REACTION TO THIS POST..NO OFFENSE.
I'M JUST HUMAN.. On my car i would only put mods on that are not going to blow my pistons up etc., and if the other guy wants to put a mod on that will blow his pistons up 15 seconds after the race then fine, HOW IS HAVING A TURBO OR A NITROUS BLOW UR ENGINE??UNLESS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT UR DOING..AND THAT ALSO EVEN APPLIES TO ANY N/A CARS..HAVE YOU TRIED IT OR HAVE YOU JUST HEARD IT FROM SOMEONE??. because I don't really give a crap about stop light drag racing, res: CO'Z 944 DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD BOTTOMEND POWER AND NOT A QUARTMILE PERFORMER..ONE REASON UR NOT GIVING A CRAP..GIVEN A CHANCE THAT IT HAS A BOTTOM END POWER..I BET MY LIFE YOU'LL DO IT!!YEAH RIGHT!! its all over when you pull up beside them with a different situation, such as a turn, or maybe the rpms your car is at. Its not as if that person that beat you at the stop light can go to far away from you, its not one race and thats it, you can pull up to him further down the road with your calculation already figured out, so that you WILL win. For example, some stang beats you at the light, but when is the race officially over? JUST MAKE SURE YOUR DOING IT ON THE PRIVATE ROADS....DON'T PUT OTHER PEOPLES LIFE AT STAKE.. No one ended it, so just let the stang beat you, but when you both pull up at the next light and you are rolling through at 20 miles an hour , cause it just turned green, your turbo will beat him since you have bypassed your lag this way. AGAIN..PRIVATE ROADS..NOW THAT IS CHEATING. But hell anyone driving a 944 shouldn't be at stoplights, they should be enjoying twisty country roads in the mountains. RES.. NOT EVERYBODY LIVE'S ON THE COUNTRYSIDE..THERE'S NO TWISTY COUNTRY ROADS HERE.. ISN'T THERE'S A SPEED LIMIT TOO?? I don't think doing drags frequently with a 944 gives Porsche a very good reputation. RES.. TO EACH HIS OWN...MOST PORSCHE OWNER DIDN'T SUCCEED IN THE DRAGS..NO FUTURE FOR THEM IN DRAG RACING..944 TRANNY IS NOT GOOD TO PAR..EVEN TURBO 944 AT 350 HP. TRANNY GIVES UP...WHO'S GOT THE 1100HP 911? DID RUF,KREMER,ETC.ACHIEVED THAT HP???WHAT WAS THAT GUY DOING IN THAT 1100HP 911?? Sure if you want to test your car once in a while, but don't make your car into a drag, you'll have more fun if you spend some money on the suspension and be able to blow cars off the turns even better, and its funner, what skill does it take to press the gas pedal and let out the clutch? If you had traction control I would bash draging even more, no skill at all IF YOU HAVEN'T RIDDEN A 10 SEC. CAR THEN I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU..WHY NOT TRY DRIVING UR CAR AND TRY TO ACHIEVE THAT 16.2 SEC. 1/4 MILE THAT PORSCHE CLAIMS ON THE 944..JUST BE HONEST ON THIS.. Sometimes if you up a turbo too much, your tires just spin, and you can't do turns anymore, because your tires just spin all the way around the turn when your flooring it. THIS IS TRUE ABOUT THE TURBO CARS.. WOULDN'T THAT HAPPEN ON AN N/A CARS TOO??WHY DID IT HAPPEN??HOW MUCH HP DOES AN N/A AND A TURBO HAS?? WHAT IF BOTH HAVE THE SAME HP? WHAT ABOUT N/A WITH A BALD WHEELS??OR WEAK SUSPENSION??ALL THESE APPLIES... DON'T YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK OFF THE GAS PEDAL?? Gotta get huge wheels etc with upping a turbo, and that will probably mean chromy ricer wheels since you already spent all your money on your turbo and now have to buy big cheap wheels. TELL ME WHAT THE RIGHT MOD IS?? ISN'T HAVING A GOOD POWER AND GOOD SUSPENSION BE ALOT BETTER?? MOST PEOPLE HERE ON THE BOARD WANT POWER ON THEY'RE 944 CO'Z THEY KNOW IT HANDLES GOOD ALREADY COMPARED TO OTHER BRANDS...AND HOW WOULD ONE WOULD ACHIEVE THIS BY HAVING SOMEONE THAT HAS TRIED IT NOT FROM HEARING IT....ATLEAST I DON'T HAVE THAT CRAB MENTALITY... Peace out. PEACE!! JUST MY 0.02 CENTS [This message has been edited by AMCPorsche924Powerhaus! (edited 03-06-2001).] |
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03-06-2001, 10:33 AM
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Location: Stockbridge, GA, US
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My nirous = 499.00
your turbo= car = 8000.00 insurance= 3600.00 a yr. (for me) i get a comparable acceleration for a fraction of the cost if thats cheating...i guess im a happy cheater ------------------ Por-sha ...please say it right.. |
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03-06-2001, 11:41 AM
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
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Ditto what Porschboi said... handling is great, but let's face it, we all want more power. The only reason I'm steering clear of nitrous and forced induction is because I want lower maintenance in this car. I already have a turbo car that is tuned to its limit (19 psi); I want my 944 to be a low maintenance track car. But that doesn't mean that turbos or nitrous is inherently unsafe; it just requires more attention to detail and more regular maintenance.
Okay, actually I'm seriously considering a nitrous kit. People like to **** with me at stop lights b/c they know 944s aren't that fast in a straight line. I'd like to be able to surprise some of those smart ass drivers. Anyway don't dis your fellow 944 driver just because he wants more power and decided that nitrous is the most cost-effective way to go. Yeah, some people call it cheating. I say they're sore losers. |
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03-06-2001, 11:45 AM
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"Actually i am just teasing"
I should have put it in bold italic underline. Guys, I own a 931. |
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03-06-2001, 02:28 PM
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cheat (cht)
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats. v. tr. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye. To elude; escape: cheat death. v. intr. To act dishonestly; practice fraud. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: accused of cheating at cards. Informal. To be sexually unfaithful: young marrieds who cheat on their spouses. ------------------ it's all about the word... |
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03-06-2001, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Ahmet ------------------ It's all the driver... |
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03-06-2001, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Racing off the line on the street is silly, most of the time once you are changing to second gear you are already at the speed limit. Driving hard in first gear is the worst thing you can do to your tranny. As for cheaters beating me, like I said I was teasing, I think anything modded to a car is fine. I have a 931, and driving hard around town is just not what i find fun, its hard on your transmission, its hard on your engine, and its hard on your oil. When I drive my 931 its out to the twists or the highway, or if I have to go to the auto store in town then I make an effort to take the long way home, instead of heading for the stop lights. Turns are fun, 0-60 means nothing to me compared to the fun of me dropping it into 2nd off a turn and pressing ever so hard on the throttle, and if there happens to be someone who wants to race on the highway then I probably won't even come accross them since I am having too much fun, and out here there aren't many racers, just guys who have cars as a desperate need for transportation. The real racers are on the track, the wannabes are on the streets. When I see a 928 or 944 around town, they aren't racing others, they are driving around town, and then they go have fun by themselves on the highway. Sure we want power, but I don't want off the line power, I want off the turn power, and any of the line power will rob you from that off the turn power. |
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03-06-2001, 02:46 PM
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ahmet, you need to read a little more closely. it says "as in", not "only".
did your brain want it to say "only"? ------------------ it's all the reading... |
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03-06-2001, 03:13 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by porscheboi928s/c944t/n:
[B]JUST MY REACTION TO THIS POST..NO OFFENSE. I'M JUST HUMAN.. On my car i would only put mods on that are not going to blow my pistons up etc., and if the other guy wants to put a mod on that will blow his pistons up 15 seconds after the race then fine, HOW IS HAVING A TURBO OR A NITROUS BLOW UR ENGINE??UNLESS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT UR DOING..AND THAT ALSO EVEN APPLIES TO ANY N/A CARS..HAVE YOU TRIED IT OR HAVE YOU JUST HEARD IT FROM SOMEONE??. Buddy, I never said nitrous or turbo blows up yoru car now did i. I am talking about people that have 25PSI of boost with no intercooler, on a monster truck that was made for offroad. Not nitrous, not a turbo. I have a 931, I am not against nitrous or turbo, I was teasing, if I have a turbo and was dissing turbo, that means I am teasing. because I don't really give a crap about stop light drag racing, res: CO'Z 944 DOESN'T HAVE A GOOD BOTTOMEND POWER AND NOT A QUARTMILE PERFORMER..ONE REASON UR NOT GIVING A CRAP..GIVEN A CHANCE THAT IT HAS A BOTTOM END POWER..I BET MY LIFE YOU'LL DO IT!!YEAH RIGHT!! It doesn't have bottom end power, and that is why I don't give a crap. (my 931 also doesn't have bottom end the way i have it tuned and all turbos lack bottom end) I don't have a 944, you might be under that impression. If my car does 0-30 in 2.4 which is faster than a 951 which does 2.5, then my high end power makes up for the no low end anyway, so low end is not allllllways needed. But thats immaterial, the 931 doing 0-30 in 2.4 was just coincidence, not intended as a drag car when porsche built it. Why do you think on the 931 that the shift pattern is set up so Reverse is where first is on a honda? Porsche made the car for you not to be using 1st, besides who wants to be burning clutches? The only reason Porsche changed over to the different pattern on the 931 in 81 and 82 is because people's commuter cars had different patterns and they wanted porsche to change it, Porsche didn't want to change it. JUST MAKE SURE YOUR DOING IT ON THE PRIVATE ROADS....DON'T PUT OTHER PEOPLES LIFE AT STAKE.. And what about you draggin people at lights, that is safe? there are pedestrians that you do not see, there are people who run red lights (and you are smoking right when the light turns green, and smack the red light runner hits you, where as if you were just driving normally you wouldn't have gotten smacked and you would have been aware of the situation) I don't see how you can justify a turbo or nitrous at full boost in the city being safe. Now if you use nitrous on the highway to get to 60 then thats different. NOT EVERYBODY LIVE'S ON THE COUNTRYSIDE..THERE'S NO TWISTY COUNTRY ROADS HERE.. ISN'T THERE'S A SPEED LIMIT TOO?? I don't think I would have bought a Porsche if there werent some roads without stoplights around here. If I did there would have to be a track here (no not a parking lot with pilons in it thank you) What are you using your car for a sex toy in town or what? these cars are fun to drive, not personal status symbols, why even bother having a 944 if you are just in the city, why not a camaro? I don't think doing drags frequently with a 944 gives Porsche a very good reputation. RES.. TO EACH HIS OWN...MOST PORSCHE OWNER DIDN'T SUCCEED IN THE DRAGS..NO FUTURE FOR THEM IN DRAG RACING..944 TRANNY IS NOT GOOD TO PAR..EVEN TURBO 944 AT 350 HP. TRANNY GIVES UP...WHO'S GOT THE 1100HP 911? DID RUF,KREMER,ETC.ACHIEVED THAT HP???WHAT WAS THAT GUY DOING IN THAT 1100HP 911?? Frankly i don't know who he is, and you can probably guess why, I am not interested, of course there will be a couple dragger porschers out there, but the names i know are not them, and there aren't many taking a wild guess. IF YOU HAVEN'T RIDDEN A 10 SEC. CAR THEN I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU..WHY NOT TRY DRIVING UR CAR AND TRY TO ACHIEVE THAT 16.2 SEC. 1/4 MILE THAT PORSCHE CLAIMS ON THE 944..JUST BE HONEST ON THIS.. I don't have a 944. And I would never attempt a 1/4 mile around a city, how did you manage to do it, you said there was no country? A quarter mile just doesn't mean anything to me, i dunno why it just doesn't. I would be interested in just doing a 0-30 in my car, not anything from 0, because if I race when I get old enough I won't be needing 0 times, and i won't be dodging pilons in parking lots so I don't intend to drive to the mall with my porsche and dodge lamp poles when I have free time. THIS IS TRUE ABOUT THE TURBO CARS.. WOULDN'T THAT HAPPEN ON AN N/A CARS TOO??WHY DID IT HAPPEN??HOW MUCH HP DOES AN N/A AND A TURBO HAS?? WHAT IF BOTH HAVE THE SAME HP? WHAT ABOUT N/A WITH A BALD WHEELS??OR WEAK SUSPENSION??ALL THESE APPLIES... DON'T YOU KNOW HOW TO BACK OFF THE GAS PEDAL?? On a turbo car it is much differnt, power hits much faster and exponentially. You are going very slow until all of a sudden you get a jolt. On an NA car you get more linear response. Of course you can spin tires on an NA, but not nearly as bad as a "too modified" car. For example would you ever use nitrous on a turn? TELL ME WHAT THE RIGHT MOD IS?? ISN'T HAVING A GOOD POWER AND GOOD SUSPENSION BE ALOT BETTER?? Your taking this pretty hard, its almost as if you are over reacting because you are seeing a bit of truth? MOST PEOPLE HERE ON THE BOARD WANT POWER ON THEY'RE 944 CO'Z THEY KNOW IT HANDLES GOOD ALREADY COMPARED TO OTHER BRANDS...AND HOW WOULD ONE WOULD ACHIEVE THIS BY HAVING SOMEONE THAT HAS TRIED IT NOT FROM HEARING IT....ATLEAST I DON'T HAVE THAT CRAB MENTALITY... Again your not taking this the right way. Most people want power on this board, but most of the modifications for a 944 are for high end roar. Bigger exhaust, better cam, those are all high end roar, not drag. nitrous is though. I would nitrous an NA car if I had a use for it, and if you have a use for it then thats great, I just don't plan on going on teh highway, usign nitrous to get to 60, and then staying at 60 for 1 hour until i get home. Once you get to 60 what good is low end power is what I am saying, you have to incorperate turns to have fun, because you are forced to slow down and speed up. If nitrous was safe for turns then I would definately consider if I had an NA, is it safe on turns? |
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03-06-2001, 03:19 PM
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Actually, I was kidding, as in that was a joke (but the example wasn't a good one, as I'm sure you'd agree).
Indicated by the smiley face, on my post... It's all in the looking (see this is a joke) Ahmet ------------------ It's all the driver... |
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03-06-2001, 03:23 PM
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1984 Porsche 944 2.5 liter, 8 valve 
1986 superior water-cooled porsche 951 2.5
