How Many Here Are S2 Pilots?

Apache · 08-06-2003, 09:32 PM

If so, how do they compare to the 944 Turbo?

Is there any reliability difference between the two. I know they will each have their own issues, I was curious if there were any dual 944 owners that have lived with these beauties side by side.

Thanks!

ronin · 08-06-2003, 11:51 PM

S2? sheep in wolf's clothing

I can't speak for the S2 as I have not owned one but I have had my turbo for nine years now and love it!! the major difference is of course in the heads. other than that they are almost the same. not sure of the difference in maintenance costs but have a hunch that they would be very similar. I haven't heard of any major problems that S2s are faced with. the biggest thing about the turbo is that if the turbo goes out, it can be a bit pricey to replace. the turbos are rather durable however, and if cared for properly (proper cool-down time, regular oil changes), they should last a long time.

either way, they are both very competent and solid, world-class cars. it just comes down to personal preference. some folks just don't care for the kick that a turbo provides when it spools up, and for the rest of us it's a rush that just can't be equaled.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

I've got an S2 that sees regular track time (PCA DE's).

I can say that the S2 has some wonderful low-end torque that the turbos do not have. Stock for stock, the 951 vs. S2 would be a close match, depending on the track. Unfortunately for me, there aren't that many stock 951's on the track these days, so typically, the 951's I run with yield quicker lap times. :grr

For autox, an S2 has an advantage over any 951 (stock or modified). Low end torque and no turbo lag means the S2 can be driven smoother and faster than a 951 on a tight cone-lined course.

For the street, it's up to you which is better: the 951 is more of a street-light to street-light bullet (I am not advocating street racing, BTW), while the S2 is more of a grand-tourer on the highway. (Once you get up to speed, the turbo doesn't offer anything over the S2)

Just my $0.42,
-Z.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

I want one of each!

OK. Maybe two of each.

944pete · 944pete's Garage

The only maintenance item on the S2 above and beyond the 944 & 951 is the cam chain tensioner. Stay up to date with it ( and the other regular maintenance items) and the car will run forever. Ignore it and say hello to your newly maxed out credit card.

rammstein · 08-07-2003, 01:39 PM

I am under the impression that if your timing belt breaks on an S2, its twice the fun.

ronin · 08-07-2003, 03:39 PM

hmmm, so now which is it? does it have a cam chain or a timing belt??

Jfrahm · 08-07-2003, 03:47 PM

True, a broken belt on an S2 is expensive but the turbo never goes out :-) You have to be pretty bad to have a tbelt go on an S2, they are nice wide strong belts and dead easy to retension. And if you cannot manage to change the belt every 40k miles or so, and the tensioner pad every 100K, lease a new Toyota :-)

Having both a Turbo S and an S2, I can say they are both great! The turbo's lack of bottom end grunt and tall gears are irritating off the line and in traffic, but the turbo hit does impress. The S2 motor gets going early and really sings above 4k. It's a wonderful motor. I'd prefer slightly taller gears for the S2 and shorter for the Turbo.
The S2 is much more of a good only car IMO. the Turbo is more likely to have annoyances (and much more so if modded.) There isn't much to mod on an S2 (at least not productively) so you end up with a reliable, fun car that just works.

I bought the battered Turbo S to do a motor swap into my Cabrio, but I'm having so much fun with the Cabrio stock that I'm having second thoughts. It's a blast the way it is!

-Joel.

Jfrahm · 08-07-2003, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ronin
hmmm, so now which is it? does it have a cam chain or a timing belt??

Both. The exhaust cam is belt driven, intake cam is driven by a short chain between the cams. Same as the 944s, 4-cam 928's, and 968.

-Joel.

ronin · 08-07-2003, 03:56 PM

I seeeeee. you learn something new everyday. I wonder if this was done to not have to redesign the entire drive system.

thamlin000 · thamlin000's Garage

I don't think anyone has mentioned the fact that the S2 has a 3.0 liter engine. That is a freaking huge 4 cylinder!

ronin · 08-07-2003, 04:57 PM

yep, just think of it as half of a 6-liter V8. those are bigger pistons than the 350 LT1, or many other small blocks for that matter!

Apache · 08-07-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jfrahm
Having both a Turbo S and an S2...

Oh great master!

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy!

SWEET!

I think I need me a 1991 S2.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Regarding the S2:
If the timing belt goes, you have a greater chance of bending more valves: there's 8 more than on the turbo. At $90.00 a pop for a valve, than can get pricey.

If the cam chain goes, again, bent valves will probably occur. The head probably won't go (like on the 944S): they fixed some internals to prevent that catastrophic failure.

-Z.

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Oh, and one more thing: in 1991, they upgraded the rear spoiler to a raised one, like the 968's. Nice update, IMHO.

-Z.

Apache · 08-07-2003, 07:29 PM

Sweet!

Since I am in no hurry, and I have scads of time on my hands. I'm seriously considering getting one of these and completely going through it. I already have another car as a daily driver so that is a big relief there.

Right now I'm on permanent disability because of a head injury so I went from being a numbers wiz in mortgage banking to having my kids count my change for me at the grocery store. It's not as bad as it seems, and the rest of the brain seems to work ok.

I would like to just find a way to fill up my day but have something to show for it at the end.

adrian jaye · 08-08-2003, 01:09 AM

somone who's driven my s2, says that it's more controlable,

better gas millage

turbo is not comfortable as a daily driver in traffic, as the gas is more of an on off switch

flangermog · flangermog's Garage

I concur, having driven both before purchasing my own, I decided that as a daily driver, the S2 is the better car, it is more balanced and more controllable. The turbos are more powerful, better for track days where you get long straights and you can make use of the forced induction.

Alain Prost (4x world F1 champ) claims to prefer NA engines for the simple reason that the low down grunt makes cornering faster on exit. Given that the S2 and the Turbo are pretty much the same apart from the airflow and gearing I would say it depends on how and where you drive as to which car suits you.

I live in England, with lots of twisty roads so the S2 makes more sense for me but if you live in the Big Country, those long straight desert roads for example would not really benefit from better cornering ability...

As any S2 driver will take great joy in reminding you though, straight roads are for fast cars, twisty ones are for fast drivers...

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but there are plenty of arguements for both cars. Me I just think the "S2" on the back looks better than that awful squiggly writing the turbos are adorned with!