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geoffbaltz's Avatar
 
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Exclamation Memorial Day

Remember the men and women that perished for this country.

We would not be here talking about our Porsches if it was not for the sacrifices that they made for all of us.

My father was in the Air Force for 30 years and was spared the agony of death for this country. Remember the men and women that were not so lucky.

America is the land of the free.....don't forget that a price was paid for this freedom that we all enjoy.

God Bless America and all of you.



-G

Old 05-28-2001, 10:28 PM
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amen geoff!

Old 05-28-2001, 10:37 PM
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Although I don't agree with certain war techniques the US has been using, I respect all those who helped the United States become possibly the greatest country in the world.

Ofcourse it's a part of human nature to take things for granted, and not realize how great the freedom to do something can be, until the right is not theirs anymore. I do complain about certain things concerning the US, but when it comes down to it, if I didn't like it better here, I wouldn't be living here. And that obligates me to be thankfull to everybody who was/has been involved in getting this country where it is today.
Ahmet
Old 05-28-2001, 11:19 PM
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We've just had a rememberance day for the ANZACs that died at Galipolli in WW1. It was a major battle for kiwis at Turkey. It came at a time where our Govt is pulling apart our Airforce. They're grounding the strike force ( A4 Skyhawks- u guys have them in museums, and Aeromacchi jet trainers) for good at the end of the year and closing 1 of the 4 air bases we have left (turning it into real estate). The Govt cancelled a deal for 26ish replacement F16's from the States. Aussie Govt was very unhappy and returned seviceman/ current members are unhappy. Theres roughly 5000-6000 people in our Air Force and with the closing of the strike wing they expect 700 positions to go. 300 will be made released from service. I've had at least 30 friends leave in the last 3 years. They've civilianised Catering, and soon Motor Transport. They want to close another base and fly civilian freight flights out of 2 bases. Aussie thinks we are turning our backs on responsibility. The defence spokesman of the Green Party (enviro's) had been for a ride in one of
our hueys over in East Timor (Indonesia) and stated that the 2 M60 machine guns (.303")on board are more than enuff fire support for our troops and can do the role the skyhawks did...he seemed to forget the aussie F18's nearby in Darwin that are the ones keeping anything from happening. The hueys we have are 32 yrs old now. The A4's were older.
Morale is low, most fighter pilots and their personnel are looking at Aussie air force or the RAF.
My world is shrinking...


[This message has been edited by mAd924 (edited 05-29-2001).]
Old 05-28-2001, 11:21 PM
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mAd924's comments are what the politicians and talking-heads call the "peace dividend." 1.2gees is correct in saying people take things for granted.

Cases-in-point:
1-When Thomas Jefferson took the office of President, he dismantled the US Naval Fleet, reducing it essentially to row-boats with a small sail and even smaller gun (yes singular gun). We rolled into the war of 1812 with no tall ships to fight the British. Ship builders were dispatched to the forests of Pennsylvania and ordered to chop down trees to build our Great Lakes Fleet with which John Paul Jones kicked British butt. No offense to our British readers. We're talking historical precedence, not Anglo-bashing.

2-After the Civil War, it took the government something like 35 years to give the soldiers a pay raise.

3-Wilson's "war to end all wars." Look at the massive industrial and military buildup the US accomplished during the 1st 6 months of 1942. WWI didn't end all wars. The cliche was used to reduce the military to the proper political size. This mentality killed a lot of people (Americans and others) at the beginning of WWII because we were not prepared to fight a 1-theater war much less the Pacific AND Europe. Had we preserved our WWI military, the Japanese probably would never have attacked Pearl Harbor. They saw our weakness and struck hard.

4-The post-Vietnam military was a wreck. Drug use was rampant, pay was VERY low, as was morale. The military was a bastard step-child in the political arena; not very popular due to political and societal perceptions and opinions. Only when President Reagan rebuilt our military did the Soviet Union try to keep up and finally collapse.

5-Thanks to this build-up we were ready for Iraq in 91. Following that victory, though, President Clinton allowed our military to be cut by almost 40%. The military was cut right past the fat, past the meat, right to the bone. The politicians couldn't credibly argue against the fact that the Soviet Union was dead and we effectively dismantled the 3rd largest military in the world. Now we face the fact that highly skilled and intelligent soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are leaving the service in droves. Unprecedented pay and allowance increases are not keeping in enough quality people. Reservists are regularly called upon for 6 months to a year to fill positions previously covered by active duty personnel. Imagine somebody telling you that you need to leave your job for a year to eat sand in the desert, or that somebody tells you that your best employee needs to serve in Bosnia for the next 6 months.

"There are no more enemies left to fight." Let me reply to that cliche with another, "Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it." Who will our next enemy be? It's inevitable. There will be one and will we be prepared?
My answer is a resounding, YES. The spirit of our military will, and always has, overcome massive odds. When there was a job to do, we did it, and successfully. (To those of you who want to bring up Vietnam, the military won the battles. The politicians lost the war.)
The people of the United States owe a debt of gratitude they can never repay to those people who fought and died in the service of their country. We may not have the perfect system, but by God, it's the best system in the world. It was bought and paid for by the blood of our fallen, and the least we can do is honor them and thank them one day every year, even though it's not nearly enough.
...Lest we forget.
Old 05-29-2001, 04:04 AM
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mAd924's comments are what the politicians and talking-heads call the "peace dividend." 1.2gees is correct in saying people take things for granted.

Cases-in-point:
1-When Thomas Jefferson took the office of President, he dismantled the US Naval Fleet, reducing it essentially to row-boats with a small sail and even smaller gun (yes singular gun). We rolled into the war of 1812 with no tall ships to fight the British. Ship builders were dispatched to the forests of Pennsylvania and ordered to chop down trees to build our Great Lakes Fleet with which John Paul Jones kicked British butt. No offense to our British readers. We're talking historical precedence, not Anglo-bashing.

2-After the Civil War, it took the government something like 35 years to give the soldiers a pay raise.

3-Wilson's "war to end all wars." Look at the massive industrial and military buildup the US accomplished during the 1st 6 months of 1942. WWI didn't end all wars. The cliche was used to reduce the military to the proper political size. This mentality killed a lot of people (Americans and others) at the beginning of WWII because we were not prepared to fight a 1-theater war much less the Pacific AND Europe. Had we preserved our WWI military, the Japanese probably would never have attacked Pearl Harbor. They saw our weakness and struck hard.

4-The post-Vietnam military was a wreck. Drug use was rampant, pay was VERY low, as was morale. The military was a bastard step-child in the political arena; not very popular due to political and societal perceptions and opinions. Only when President Reagan rebuilt our military did the Soviet Union try to keep up and finally collapse.

5-Thanks to this build-up we were ready for Iraq in 91. Following that victory, though, President Clinton allowed our military to be cut by almost 40%. The military was cut right past the fat, past the meat, right to the bone. The politicians couldn't credibly argue against the fact that the Soviet Union was dead and we effectively dismantled the 3rd largest military in the world. Now we face the fact that highly skilled and intelligent soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are leaving the service in droves. Unprecedented pay and allowance increases are not keeping in enough quality people. Reservists are regularly called upon for 6 months to a year to fill positions previously covered by active duty personnel. Imagine somebody telling you that you need to leave your job for a year to eat sand in the desert, or that somebody tells you that your best employee needs to serve in Bosnia for the next 6 months.

"There are no more enemies left to fight." Let me reply to that cliche with another, "Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it." Who will our next enemy be? It's inevitable. There will be one and will we be prepared?
My answer is a resounding, YES. The spirit of our military will, and always has, overcome massive odds. When there was a job to do, we did it, and successfully. (To those of you who want to bring up Vietnam, the military won the battles. The politicians lost the war.)
The people of the United States owe a debt of gratitude they can never repay to those people who fought and died in the service of their country. We may not have the perfect system, but by God, it's the best system in the world. It was bought and paid for by the blood of our fallen, and the least we can do is honor them and thank them one day every year, even though it's not nearly enough.
...Lest we forget.
Old 05-29-2001, 04:04 AM
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Galipolli...
wasn't that the war Mel Gibson was in?
Old 05-29-2001, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by redNeckarsulm:
Galipolli...
wasn't that the war Mel Gibson was in?
Mel Gibson is American don't forget . born in Peekskill, NY. he also is a classic car nut and he has a nice '65 Cobra 427.

obin
Old 05-29-2001, 11:57 AM
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didn't mention the car when I met him.
In fact, he didn't do anything but crack wise whenever he could...

Oh well, could have been a good conversation perhaps...
Old 05-29-2001, 12:00 PM
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Geoff- I could not agree more. The peaceniks and doves of this country and others wish to hide their collective heads in the sand wishing that there was no evil in the world. Well, surprise, there is and where strong men and women resist, good will prevail. The Clinton administration will probably be proven to be one of the most disasterous to our national security in years. Some people simply slept through history class.

Of my grandmother's generation, one was killed at Pearl Harbor, while the other served with the 1st Marine division for the duration, so I went to see Pearl Harbor for that reason only. We have a Vietnam Memorial, an FDR memorial, a Lincoln Memorial, but none to the WW II veterans. IT IS TIME! These people are leaving us at an astounding pace. The stories and oral histories are dying with them. We need to honor them now while some are still here.

Our very existence today is shaped by the actions and sacrifices of those before us. In that light, understand that every day is "Memorial Day".

Dave951M
Old 05-29-2001, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave951M:

Our very existence today is shaped by the actions and sacrifices of those before us. In that light, understand that every day is "Memorial Day".

Dave951M
i hear ya loud and clear! agree 100%!

just offhand, my landlord was on Omaha Beach on 6-June 1944. man, if there ever was a true hell on earth that must have been it!

obin
Old 05-30-2001, 12:13 PM
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My uncle was in the first wave on several invasions in the Pacific. He wouldn't talk too much about them, just that he lost many, many friends, and always with a distant look. He did tell me that the worst campaign was Guadalcanal. They nearly starved on that one and the "issue was in doubt" often. One interesting incident he did relate often was an informal truce with the Japanese on the far side of a small river, in which they detonated a mine- he called GI fishing. Both sides waded out and collected fish and stopped fighting long enough to eat. Granted, this was a rare incident but, it does bring a human face to war. "It is well that war is so terrible, lest we should grow too fond of it."- R. E. Lee viewing the slaughter of Federal troops at the battle of Fredricksburg. As for the one at Pearl, he was in the infantry. The most I have been able to find out about him was that he was driving a car and a bomb went off near him, wounding him and causing him to lose control. The accumulation of wounds and accident injuries killed him. The reason no one talked much about him was that he had married a native Hawaiian girl, a big social faux pas in those days. The folks back home took a dim view of it and didn't speak of him much and I think there was some guilt over it as well. History is closer than your think.

Dave851M
Old 05-30-2001, 03:31 PM
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I just got back from the moving wall. It was here all through the weekend, but it was so packed we couldn't get in to see it until now. The highlight had to be the KC-135A Flying Tanker that flew over in Honor of the wall and the men it stood for. My father, and all four of his brothers served in Vietnam. Looking at the Wall it hit me how lucky I was that they all came home. It also hit me how lucky WE are that there are men willing to give the ultimate sacrifice to protect our Freedom and Liberty. It's just a shame the American people want to make the Veterans sacrifice a moot point when they cast their votes. Everyone should see this wall, or the real one. If it doesn't make you thankful for your freedoms, nothing will.

As for the WWII vets, they should have their own Memorial soon. I would rather my tax dollars go to a Memorial for them, than a welfare broodmare that just keeps draining other peoples wallets, and keeps popping out more welfare tricycle motors.

A very sincere thanks to all who have served, and are still serving in our armed forces. I know it's not enough to pay for what you went through, or what you may have to face.

Old 05-31-2001, 07:34 PM
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