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Twin turbo 944 - myth or reality

Just had to have new rear tyres.
Ended up with Toyo Proxes T1s.

The guy who was changing them said that he had 944 for a year or so, a twin turbo.

Now, when I got my 951 I looked into the whole 944 thing in quite a lot of detail, but I never saw anything about these.
It could be that the whole story is just b/s, but if not it's pretty interesting.

He says that there were 109 built by Porsche, as he had the chassis number checked by the local Porsche dealer at the time. But they were too fierce so they quit. Apparently the second turbo came in heavy at around 145mph which led to some interesting moments on fast bends at high speeds.

His police officer friend clocked him at 170mph and still accelerating at one point.

Anyone else hear of anything like this ?
I suppose with such a limited run, they may never have gone beyond Europe. . . but who knows.


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NickB
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Old 06-06-2001, 01:06 AM
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Sounds like this man was very practiced in the art.... Of BS that is.
Old 06-06-2001, 01:56 AM
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That sounds quite funny.

It is NOT true.
Ahmet

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Old 06-06-2001, 02:34 AM
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That's what I figured, but you have to humour the guy that's fixing your car, don't you !!
Old 06-06-2001, 03:44 AM
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you don't have to humor that guy, he's changing tires (not the pinnacle of automotive technicianhood).

Besides, he's a liar. Why even tell a story like that? It like used car salesmen that tell me all about the 944 series AFTER they find out I was a Porsche mechanic...

I don't get those guys.
Old 06-06-2001, 07:47 AM
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Well, here is a question. Could it be done? I know it is possiable to ad another turbo but could the motor take it?

Rember that page where the guy built a twin turbo supra that was powered by a Chevy V8
Old 06-06-2001, 09:25 AM
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Twin Turbo's are done on V engines ie Maserati Bi Turbo on a V6, I've seen a De Tomaso Pantera with nit, and Twin Turbos.. The owner is scared to drive it. but inline turbo's Shouldn't do anything that one could not do.

Matt
Old 06-06-2001, 09:30 AM
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Porsche has never went to the extremes of making a twin turbo 944. It's policies in the 1980s follows:

-No 944, 924 or 928 shall exceed performance of the baseline 911.
-The marque of the 911 was to never be challenged by such extremes of diverse model production.

HOWEVER, there is a 944 twin turbo. But its a custom job. The use of a 951 block and head isn't relevant to this project seeing that the motor cannot handle a second turbo.
I have seen a 1984 944 at the PCASD autocrosses that is twin turbo. After talking to the owner of the car, he had used a standard NA motor to obtain the twin turbo technology. By heavily modifying the head, intake and crankcase, he was able to bolt on 2 K-27 turbochargers to it. the Compression was 8.5:1 and the HP was about 422 HP at 5300 RPM. Yes it is possible to do a twin turbo conversion on a 944. a 951...NO.
Be advised that this project would cost an excruciating amount of money. about 7-10 thousand to be exact.



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Old 06-06-2001, 09:37 AM
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sequential turbos?

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Old 06-06-2001, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EuroSpec944:
Be advised that this project would cost an excruciating amount of money. about 7-10 thousand to be exact.
that number seems cheap. i mean, an early 944 in good condition can be had for $3k. $10k in mods for 422 hp for a total of only $13k? and no lag. that's cheap if it really could be done for that money.

Old 06-06-2001, 10:19 AM
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Supras with straight 6's use twin sequential turbos to bring the boost up quick. The first one spools hard, then effectively lights the second (as far as I know). In RX7's the sequential boost pattern is something like 11-9-11 (Blackfoot is that right?).

For real performance most of the Supra guys eliminate the sequential aspect of the system and have the turbos light up at the same time. This effectively delays the lag but supposdly helps HP.

For a 951, the primarily problem I foresee is space. In addition the max hp number would probably be less for the sequential set-up than the dual set-up or single set-up. Moreover, when a single turbo is sized correctly, spool up is minimal. On a 951 you can get 350 to the wheels and still achieve max boost at 3000 rpm. I'd say any hp over that and you're looking at major reliability problems. Further, any quicker spool up and you'll be lighting the tires up all the time.

Erick
Old 06-06-2001, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfrpi:
Supras with straight 6's use...
it's my understanding that supras use v6's. at least i know they do in the naturally aspirated versions. do they use a completely different motor for tt? would be kinda weird, 300zx & mitsu 3000gt both use v6's.

[quote]In RX7's the sequential boost pattern is something like 11-9-11[QUOTE]

no idea what 11-9-11 means. psi? i know the smaller turbo (less inertia) spools real quick and at around 4500 rpm hands it over to the secondary turbo. the secondary is turning and is pretty much up to speed at the handoff point.

[Quote]For real performance most of the Supra guys eliminate the sequential aspect of the system and have the turbos light up at the same time.[QUOTE]

when the supra guys want big hp, it's my understanding they go with a single turbo, not twin or twin sequential. big lag but big power. mostly applicable for drag.

Quote:
On a 951 you can get 350 to the wheels and still achieve max boost at 3000 rpm. I'd say any hp over that and you're looking at major reliability problems.
yeah, i don't think i'd subject my baby to any more hp than that. probably less.

Old 06-06-2001, 11:16 AM
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Gen. III Supra turbos have an inline six and one turbo. I know cause I help my friend with his all of the time. The Gen. IV Supra TT has an inline six just as Erick stated. Fun car. Even the Gen III is fun.

Dave
Old 06-06-2001, 11:25 AM
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you got me thinking, so i just checked, and you're both right--inline 6.

Old 06-06-2001, 11:42 AM
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yes porsche did make them!!! they only run on snake oil though 8^).
on an inline engine all twin turbos does is combat lag by having a small turbo and a large turbo. to get serious power most remove this setup and apply 1 large turbo. on a twin bank engine it is a completely different setup. there would be NO reason to put twin turbos on a 944(inline 4) except to reduce lag. that guy was beyond a doubt full of shi*
Old 06-06-2001, 08:31 PM
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Top range Nissan Skylines are tt straight 6's (all Skylines either 2L, 2.5L, 2.6L straight 6's) too.
Old 06-06-2001, 09:12 PM
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...Also to get max hp out of a tt Supra, a race team in Japan spent zillions in research and development and ditched the supra engine altogether. They fitted an MR2 turbo engine. They got more hp from a lighter engine that also sat further back for a better balanced race car. It could clock well over 335kph. I have it on a video when they were doing 300kph tests with a whole bunch of jap ricers. There was also a 600hp Skyline.
Old 06-06-2001, 09:16 PM
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mad, i saw that video on speedvision about 3 months ago. they test drove it at hockenheim. the engineered tt 4-cyl supra put out over 500 hp and even more impressive, it was an incredible handler. probably due to the lightweight 4.

Old 06-06-2001, 09:48 PM
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you guys need to check out a dyno run by Ben Blaylock's? Supra Turbo. It looks stock but puts out over 870 rear wheel hp! I have the video if anyone is interested. Its a 6 cylinder too! The Supra sixes are excellent motors they regularly put down over 400 to the wheels on all stock internals. I think the 4 cylinder was for weight and the 4 cycl limit in the racing class. If anyone wants to know everything about these cars go to MKIV.com. BTW - HKS sells a twin-turbo ball bearing set-up for the car that puts out over 400hp to the wheels (I think they are twin Gt-35s). Apparently it has less lag than the large single set-up.

Erick
Old 06-06-2001, 10:39 PM
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That must b a 2nd one Blackfoot! The one I've seen was filmed in NZ. Had pisspoor sound qulity too. Can't remember wot class it races in but races in Japan.

Old 06-06-2001, 10:50 PM
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