new guy

gtroth · 11-03-2003, 04:38 PM

Been lurking here since July when I got my white '88 944S (now 83k miles). With all your help, I've done a few things myself (oil change, thermoswitch, new Blau). Without your help, unforntunately, I went after my droopy hood shocks (looked simple enough). Pretty easy to break the windshield, huh? Wouln't have been so bad if the PO hadn't agreed to replace it before I got the car just a couple of weeks before.

But I love the car. I can't wait to get in it in the morning and at the end of the day, and I know now it will ulimately break my heart.

Today began great as usual. Car ran perfectly for my 30min commute, not much traffic. Backing into my parking spot, I realized my power steering was gone. Just couln't look at it till lunch time: starts right up, still no power steering, low voltage (~8V), oil pressure light on. Sender pegs the meter >5, so this could just be result of low voltage, but who knows. So I didn't drive it (looked pretty good on the flat bed though). I'll talk to the shop tomorrow morning. I'm guessing it's just a belt. The pullies I could see appeared to be occupied, but I couldn't look that closely. Agree?

I'll probably let the shop just fix it, but as long as it's there, is there anything I might have them do that I may not want to to?

T-belts got only 14K miles on it.

Tom

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Power steering has it's own belt. Does not share the AC/alternator belt.

What usually happens is the tensioning strut comes loose and either drops off or hangs under the car.

Don't know how this would impact the AC/alternator belt or oil pressure.

I would suggest having the pad on the chain tensioner replaced.

todwic · todwic's Garage

I guess if the ps pump seized up, that would drag the engine down enough to affect all these other things. Tom, did you happen to note the idle rpm's? Cours if the alt seized, ps would be affected. I dunno.

gtroth · 11-03-2003, 06:22 PM

Well, no, I didn't happen to notice idle RPMs. Seemed normal. And drove fine for the 10 parking spaces I drove it before deciding the oil pressure warning might be real.

But, now that I think about it, I remember another low voltage event ~2 weeks ago (cold and rainy - thought I was just looking at an almost-stall, and the volts did quickly recover). Could have been the alt trying to tell me something, heh? Of course, SoCal says the ps is on its own belt, so it's hard for me to see how the alt can bring down the ps.

ae1969 · 11-03-2003, 06:59 PM

Well thats just plain weird. Multiple problems...

But one thing jumps out at me that would cause all these problems....

Crank bolt coming loose......

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Crank bolt would account for low to zero oil pressure. The pulleys might wobble but would still be driven by the key.

As Todwic brought up could have the PS pump seizing or alternator problems.

How is the chain tensioner pad?

gtroth · 11-04-2003, 03:18 PM

So, the shop tells me it's the crank bolt. Good call ae1969. It competely fell out. They were pretty worried about block damage, but found none. They say it "walked a gear out that needs replaced" (oil pump? - got some of this info on my voicemail; little busy today). And they won't know for sure until they fire it up.

So, how does that happen? Is it common? Is it loosened during T-belt replacement or clutch replacement (last two big jobs)? Everyone I have talked to so far thinks that's pretty strange.

justin · justin's Garage

Well I guess I will go and check mine......you know just to be safe.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by gtroth
So, the shop tells me it's the crank bolt. Good call ae1969. It competely fell out. They were pretty worried about block damage, but found none. They say it "walked a gear out that needs replaced" (oil pump? - got some of this info on my voicemail; little busy today). And they won't know for sure until they fire it up.

So, how does that happen? Is it common? Is it loosened during T-belt replacement or clutch replacement (last two big jobs)? Everyone I have talked to so far thinks that's pretty strange.

It is pretty strange.

What did the shop say about your cam chain tensioner pad?

todwic · todwic's Garage

Well paint me dum dum blue. Good call ae.

ae1969 · 11-04-2003, 07:37 PM

That crankbolt is normally at 150lbft so I would assume that it was not torqued properly the last time around.....

Consider yourself lucky (read=buy lotto ticket). It seems that you caught the problem at the nick of time. You could of easily driven it with no oil pressure and had bigger problems (the block damage they were looking for)..... It is really so hard to tell how much damage if any could have been done.

.....and as Socal suggested make sure you have that pad/chain tensioner replaced if you haven't replaced them already.

gtroth · 11-04-2003, 08:08 PM

I'm still marveling at my good fortune. It failed as I was backing into my parking space. One minute before that I was at ~75mph on I-95.

This same shop did my clutch in July - would they have needed to touch the crank bolt? PO had the T-belt done maybe two years ago somewhere else. I would think it would have failed a while ago if that shop hadn't torqued it right. Who knows.

I am wondering if the gear the shop said walked was the camshaft or balance gear. Can they move when the pulleys come loose? I'll have alot more time to talk to them tomorrow.

I will of course have them look over the tensioner (many thanks). Clark's Garage has a link that makes it look like replacing the pad or the whole assembly is a pretty simple job. What do you think, can a competent but novice mechanic do that job? Just thinking about it since I don't know how much they will need to charge for that.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

I really hate to be a pest but I would open the valve cover and replace that pad right now. Porsche shops have been told that this is a 100,000 mile item.

It is NOT. Too many recent 'S' and 'S2' owners have eaten the head, a $3,000 item, in the last month.

If you insist on being reluctant I can give you the e-mail address to two of them in the last week. Maybe three.

ae1969 · 11-04-2003, 09:48 PM

...the gear they are referring to is driven by the crank....... The bolt torques down and holds the crank pulley against a washer (we'll call it that), o-ring that presses against the gear that was 'walking' out of position..... the gear turns with the crank that drives the oil pump. (I hope that made sense).

...... a novice-competent mechanic armed with the proper information (service manuals) can change the pad and tensioner.....

P.S. and listen to what socal said. If it has the original pad/tensioner you are driving a ticking time bomb.

Good luck I think everything will be fine in the end.

gtroth · 11-05-2003, 04:28 PM

Ok - I'm into the crank bolt repair for ~$600 (they've put a bunch of hours into it in between their schdeuled jobs so it's taking a while).

For the chain tensioner they very roughly estimated ~$280 just to check the pad (w/ new gasket), ~$700 to replace the pad, and ~$1000 to replace the entire tensioner assembly.

So it's not exactly cheap insurance. I am thinking of checking it myself and then deciding.