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speaker kick panels

I want to get the speakers in my car replaced, so i went to a pretty reliable sound shop in town. My back speakers are blown, and i told him what kind of hassle it would be to replace them. He convinced me to try and find some kick panels that go on the door side of the floorboard in the corner, that you can mount like 5 1/2" speakers in. He told me to get online and try and find some, but i couldn't find any. Does anybody know where i can get some pre-made for my car?
I'm not gonna use the back speakers, i'm gonna rewire the front speakers and have them hooked up as my rear speakers, and kick panel speakers as my fronts. I also keep the back seats folded down most of the time, so i usually only use my car as a 2 seater, i was planning on putting like 2 10" speakers back there, so i really wouldn't have need for the rear speakers and i won't have to go through the hassle...if anybody has some tips, or any problems understanding any of what i'm trying to say, let me know. Thanks

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Old 11-29-2003, 10:00 PM
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Why is it a hassle to replace the rear speakers? The panel is only held on with a few screws and pop fasteners. Unbolt the seat belt bolts and judiciously pry the trim from behind the window rubber and it comes away really easily. I'm not sure that putting speakers in the kick panel is worth doing - the sound will be coming from roughly the same area as the door speakers from where you're sitting. If you're really against pulling away the rear trim panel wouldn't it be easier and audibly more worthwhile to put some speakers in the rear boot section over those cavernous wells by the rear arches? That way all you need do is make a few holes in the carpet to accept the speakers. Very easy to do in the space of a half hour or so.
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1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

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Last edited by Dark Skies; 11-30-2003 at 05:24 AM..
Old 11-30-2003, 04:45 AM
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I have in my 86 NA" MB quarts 5 1/4" components in the front. You have a very small amount of clearence but they do fit. You may need to alter your door panels some what.....
Kick panels in the drivers side can be a PIA. I have seen one car with them and the kick panel is to close to your feet.....
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Old 11-30-2003, 08:00 AM
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Another thought, that I am in the process of working on, is I am making some custom door panels, Originally I was just going to mount a speaker pod, but I did not want to cut up my door panel, so I am making a complete replica, and just swapping the window controls and the door handle onto it. It will accept 2 sets of component speakers, a 6 1/2" and a 5 1/4", so 4 speakers in each front door, and in the rear, the fiberglass sub box I am building will accept a 4x10" in the top of each box, so I will have 6 speakers, and 4 subs =)
If you have LOTS of time and about 150-200 bucks, you can do the door panels yourself.
I will have some pics up when I finish (prolyin the new year)
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Old 11-30-2003, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zero10
Another thought, that I am in the process of working on, is I am making some custom door panels, Originally I was just going to mount a speaker pod, but I did not want to cut up my door panel, so I am making a complete replica, and just swapping the window controls and the door handle onto it. It will accept 2 sets of component speakers, a 6 1/2" and a 5 1/4", so 4 speakers in each front door, and in the rear, the fiberglass sub box I am building will accept a 4x10" in the top of each box, so I will have 6 speakers, and 4 subs =)
If you have LOTS of time and about 150-200 bucks, you can do the door panels yourself.
I will have some pics up when I finish (prolyin the new year)
Thats interesting.... you wouldn't want to share that mold with a fellow Albertan
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Old 11-30-2003, 12:52 PM
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Which mould? I have 1 made out of spray foam for the passenger's quarter panel, I will be making one for the driver's quarter panel as well. The amp rack will bridge between the 2 boxes, and I'll be putting in new carpet in the back, and the boxes use ALL the available space, and are still removable. The passenger's one is still in the works. The mould is only of the quarter panel,it does not go very far over the wheel well, or out into the back, so some of it must be made in place.
The door panels, I will be using hte factory ones as templates, cutting a new backing for mine, and probably building them in place. I will post some pictures once I get all this done, but don't expect anything soon, university has me so busy I can barely post here!
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Old 11-30-2003, 07:07 PM
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************************************************** **********
Why is it a hassle to replace the rear speakers? The panel is only held on with a few screws and pop fasteners. Unbolt the seat belt bolts and judiciously pry the trim from behind the window rubber and it comes away really easily. I'm not sure that putting speakers in the kick panel is worth doing - the sound will be coming from roughly the same area as the door speakers from where you're sitting. If you're really against pulling away the rear trim panel wouldn't it be easier and audibly more worthwhile to put some speakers in the rear boot section over those cavernous wells by the rear arches? That way all you need do is make a few holes in the carpet to accept the speakers. Very easy to do in the space of a half hour or so.
************************************************** *********

i've thought about using those huge spaces back there for something...just not sure what yet. As for the sound...i really want it focused more on the front of the car. I plan on keeping the back seat folded down and having my speaker box back there ontop of the seat back. The rear speakers would really not be heard as well back there, and i have heard that you have to take the back windows out, i've heard this from many people.

About the room by your feet...i was looking at the car on the drivers side floor board, What is behind the foot prop thing where your left foot sits? is it just foam and rubber or something, or is there something back there that would have to be altered? Cause if i can get that out of the way, and have the carpet just sit flush with the floor, then it would be alot easier for the speaker to fit on the drivers side.
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Old 12-02-2003, 02:31 PM
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Hmm, I wouldn't bother removing anything that's behind the dead pedal, there is not much to be gained there. If you are looking at getting better sound out of your 944, you are on the right track with folding the seats down and putting speaker boxes on them, so long as you don't have to fold them back up again, another possibility is to face them up in the hatch area, the sound will echo off the glass, and it works alright (that's what I have for the time being). Just remember, the rear speakers are just for fill, don't expect any good sound quality out of them. A good suggestion is to build some speaker pods on the front doors, and mount something other than a 4x6", perhaps angle it up a little as well, would help with the sound quality.

If I ever finish my projects, I will post some pictures.

ae1969, I have no problem sharing my moulds, however they are not perfect, so there is still some skill involved in building a box for the rear. I only have a passenger side right now, but I'm working on the driver's side, as soon as I get my current MDF box out of there (there are 2 MTX 15's back there right now, no room to work).
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Old 12-04-2003, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Skies
I'm not sure that putting speakers in the kick panel is worth doing - the sound will be coming from roughly the same area as the door speakers from where you're sitting.

A properly designed and angled kickpanel will raise the soundstage up, and give the image that sound is actually being spread out across a stage that is located just past your bumper and even spread out in front of the car.

The thing to remember in acoustics is that proper placement and alignment will alter the perceived image of sound greatly. As it sits, you have 2 door speakers that are aimed directly at each other. Cancellation occurs throughout a minimum of 2 octaves just due to the alignment with the speakers being aimed at each other.

Proper stereo listening position for stereo effect is equidistant from your two main speakers. In other words, if the left speaker is aimed at your left ear and is 4 feet away, the right speaker needs to be aimed at your right ear and also needs to be 4 feet away. This cannot be accomplished perfectly, but with proper aiming from the kickpanels it can come fairly close. A heck of alot closer then having one speaker 2.5' from your left ear, aimed directly at the right speaker that's 4 feet from your right ear.





Back on topic. I don't believe anyone makes an aftermarket kickpanel for our car. A good installer, however, can make one.
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86 Red 951 - Turbo Twists, otherwise stock for now
83 Black 944 w/86 951 front end - still down and out, but coming back slowly.
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Old 12-04-2003, 11:13 AM
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Here's a set of fiberglass doorpod enclosures I built to replace the 4x6's that fit in an Old's Alero with 6.5" Orion NT's(factory tweeter housing was re-used for the Orion tweeters.







Considering the available realestate on the door panels for the 944, I've thought of building some for it too, when I get done with my 'Deer incident' repairs.

If time permits, I might consider building duplicates or more. But the thing to consider with fiberglass work is, time is money and these things take some time to finish(sanding and covering).
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86 Red 951 - Turbo Twists, otherwise stock for now
83 Black 944 w/86 951 front end - still down and out, but coming back slowly.
02 Altima SE 3.5 - grocery go-getter
00 Yellow Ducati Monster 900i.e. 88 Chrysler Conquest TSi
Old 12-04-2003, 11:22 AM
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Sweet job Jack!

Please post some pics/write-up if you do it. I am thinking of several new peices to update the interior but I am new to glassing (except for the ol' surfboard repairs).....

This about right?
Build mold
Spray with releaser
Cover with cloth (fleece or other)
Slather on the resin
Cover with fiberglass
Slather more resin
Sand it
Fill with body filler
Sand it
Release the mold
Sand it- trim etc
Paint it or cover with leather in my case

???????
Would love to see a classy job done on a 944
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Old 12-04-2003, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueQuestTSi
A properly designed and angled kickpanel

Ahhh! It becomes clear. You mean panels that kick the sound out at an angle. Over here a kick panel is the panel near your feet (that you often kick with the side of your boot) - like the one the bonnet (hood) lever is mounted on.

Nice speaker pods by the way.
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1983 944 Lux (manual) 2.5 litre 8 valve na and no pas

1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

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Old 12-04-2003, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TCMdocs944
Sweet job Jack!

Please post some pics/write-up if you do it. I am thinking of several new peices to update the interior but I am new to glassing (except for the ol' surfboard repairs).....

This about right?
Build mold
Spray with releaser
Cover with cloth (fleece or other)
Slather on the resin
Cover with fiberglass
Slather more resin
Sand it
Fill with body filler
Sand it
Release the mold
Sand it- trim etc
Paint it or cover with leather in my case

???????
Would love to see a classy job done on a 944
Sounds about right. You don't have to build a mold though, unless you plan on duplicating several.
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86 Red 951 - Turbo Twists, otherwise stock for now
83 Black 944 w/86 951 front end - still down and out, but coming back slowly.
02 Altima SE 3.5 - grocery go-getter
00 Yellow Ducati Monster 900i.e. 88 Chrysler Conquest TSi
Old 12-04-2003, 05:21 PM
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What I would do, and will most likely.

Use some " MDF to build a base for the door pod. I'd but this base up against armrest/map pocket for asthetics, try to follow the lines already available. From this flat base you can decide what it is exactly you want to fit in the door pod, be it a simple 5 " or an expensive 3 way component set. Design a baffle to hold the speakers, and suspend it off of the base, with the appropriate angles to get the aim/appearance you want.

At this point is where you'd stretch your base cloth over the structure. I prefer speaker grill cloth due to it's ability to stretch. Once you have the first layer down, resin it. Now you can build it up, and eliminate any imperfections in the original 'stretching' with polyester cloth and more resin. Once you've got the strength you desire, it's time to sand. I use Evercoat Z-Grip or Featherlite bondo over the whole thing, this stuff is easy to sand and smooth. The bondo also gives a little more strength to the whole structure.

The amount of sanding that's necessary is directly related to what you are going to cover the panel with. If you just planned on stretching carpet over the whole assembly, then it doesn't have to be perfect. If you are doing vinyl with padding, some imperfections can be left. Vinyl with no padding, and paint, require a flawless look and feel, as the vinyl and/or paint will show the imperfections in the sanding job.

The whole process is really hard to describe, it's easier to show someone how to do it, than to explain it. And of course there's a lot of hit and miss stuff you'll have to learn on your own, such as the limits to stretching vinyl over your creation


The pods above were done by removing a section of the door panel itself, masking off the area with masking tape. Applying fiberglass cloth and resin directly to the door and door panel to get a backing shape(masking tape protected the surfaces from the resin). Then removing the 'mold' from the door, and continuing the build up of the panel away from the car. This insured a near perfect fit, and allowed me to make airtight enclosures for the 6.5's.
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86 Red 951 - Turbo Twists, otherwise stock for now
83 Black 944 w/86 951 front end - still down and out, but coming back slowly.
02 Altima SE 3.5 - grocery go-getter
00 Yellow Ducati Monster 900i.e. 88 Chrysler Conquest TSi
Old 12-04-2003, 05:35 PM
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Just read and artical that showed and interesting process.

Remove door panel
Cover door completly w masking tape(where the panel was)
Spray adhesive over that
Apply tin foil and smooth it with a roller
Put on a layer of fiberglass and resin
Once dry...remove
Now you have the bottom of the mold...
Place on work surface tape side down..
Place 5" tall cardboard "ring" around the whole thing
Fill the ring with expanding foam....Like a jello mold.
The stuff expands ...remove the ring....
file and grind away at it until you have the desired shape...
Glass it etc and your done

Seems very labor intensive as you said BQ but I really love invention..

I am glad to see people moving away from MDF/wood for interiors..very heavy and usually sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:37 PM
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Only problem with that article. Resin will eat the spray foam It might be the MEK used to harden the resin, or it's the heat built up during the chemical reaction, but I don't think the foam will last long enough for the glass to take shape.


Besides that, you'll have a nice solid enclosure with no air space inside it, and scooping out that foam will be a chore

Otherwise, the masking tape and foil is a good idea.
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86 Red 951 - Turbo Twists, otherwise stock for now
83 Black 944 w/86 951 front end - still down and out, but coming back slowly.
02 Altima SE 3.5 - grocery go-getter
00 Yellow Ducati Monster 900i.e. 88 Chrysler Conquest TSi
Old 12-04-2003, 05:42 PM
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Hmm, you are right, it takes a lot of doing things the wrong way to get it right, lol, I am on my third attempt at my sub box for the rear storage areas. This time I used spray foam in the quarter panel, pulled it then filed it until it was removable, glassed over it once, then inside it (foam removed) 5 layers. It's pretty tough. once it is finished, I will spray rubber undercoating over the non-visible outside parts, and through the inside (it's ported, I want to keep echoes down), dynamat the entire interior, and paint the box.
How much bondo do you apply to the surface? I try to get it very close with just sanding, and I add just enough bondo to smooth it out.
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:44 PM
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alright...man i thought this thread was dead, i had to find it 2 days ago on the second page, got on today and it was 2nd in line...boy was i shocked!!!
I looked under that "dead pedal", i think is what somebody called it, and it has some rubber and foam under it, but the body of the car comes out also right there, it might can be modified, i think it was made of fiberglass(it was dark).
I really want to put those kick panel speakers there, i was thinking about making a small enclosure with a hinge on the back side, and something to hold it on the front side(if its large enough to block the hood popper), that way i can still access the hood popper and have a speaker box down there that's movable. I want to have my cake and eat it too!!! It may be a little bit of work, but i'm sure i can come up with something. I also noticed alot of wires down there that weren't going to something, and some coming out of a plastic box and were going something under the dash, no clue, but that's another thread. Don't want to get off topic.
That is an awesome job you did Jack on those doors, maybe i can get a friend who works with fiber glass to give me some ideas and help me out.
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:59 PM
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Scrambled......

I am not so sure that spot would be all that great for a speaker. The sound will shoot straight to your legs or toward your hip..Chances of hitting it with a foot are really good too.

Why not just go with the door panel?

BTW - "bunch of wires not going to something" Yikes..Have an electronics buddy see if he can figure it out and remove/replace.
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83 944 white w/Boxster wheels
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Old 12-05-2003, 09:40 AM
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yeah...i did...turns out one of the previous owners installed a car alarm, and left the box in there but alot of it was unplugged except for some wires going into the dash. I took it out though, and all is good.

I'm just trying to figure out where i can get alot of theater sound out of my car....i want more than just door speakers but i don't know where else i could go, and i want the sound coming from in front of me because i'm gonna have subs in the back behind me.

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Old 12-05-2003, 08:58 PM
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