update on starting problem
 

just for the records.
some of you may remember my monthly postings about my no start problems. starter motor was replaced, battery cables were replaced, alternator was tested and checked out fine, alternator wires were inspected, grounds were cleaned, battery was replaced etc
turns out i just had a draw coming from fuse 7. ill have to get in there and find out where exactly. i hated that cd player but i do like having the clock.
when i have some money i think i will replace the voltage regulator with an adjustable one to be sure

Well, on the positive side, you will have a brand-new robust electrical system when through!

Wow, all that from a radio short?

yea i hate electricity. but at least i know more about it.
Also, thanks to everyone who helped! SoCal, FRWilk, VT944, and AFJuvat were there on almost every thread

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz zzzzzzzzzzz

What??? Oh... OK.


ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZzzzzzz zZzzzzzzzz...

Think of electricity like water. When you break a conduit the electrons run out all over the ground.

well if electricity is water what is power? pressure or flow? or both?

Current.

IIRC Dad who is an electrical enginer told me that when comparing water to electricity

Pressure=Voltage
Flow rate=Current
Gallons per minute=Watts
Diameter of hose=resistance

and of course, Watts = Power

good analogies

Flow rate = V
Diameter of pipe = A


V/A = R
VA=W

W = All that water in my lap

Water Flow rate (Pressure) = V
Diameter of pipe = A


V/A = R
VA=W

W = All that water in my lap

GAH! if FRWilk doesnt get it i have no hope.
E=IR for electricity right? and P=F/A for water so I(electrical term)=P(water term), E=F, and R=A.
does that hold up? voltage=force?
watts are power but what is amps?

exactly

to quote a line from that Gregory Hines - Billy Chrystal movie. (don't remember the name)
"So how many watts are in that center rail anyway??"
"enough to push a fukcing train! now SHUT UP!" (or something like that anyway)

:D

Maybe I am explaining it wrong I dont know the answer but flow rate (if that is the right term) can remain the same, but if I change the diametter (resistance) of the hose the gallons per min (output) will change. So flow rate is not equal to gallons per min. I thought flow rate would be more like feet per second.

you're close! gpm is flow-rate. diameter = restistance, and pressure = current

No, Ronin...V=IR, not A. In your case, pressure=voltage, not current, which is V/R.

Current = flow rate. When talking about fluids, electrons included, flow means, by definition, volume of fluid passing a point per unit time (vol/time = gal/min). Feet per second is a speed (distance traveled per unit time), which is about a centimeter per second for electrons in a wire.

If you make the diameter of the hose at the pump discharge larger, the flow rate will remain the same (pump specific), the speed will decrease and the pressure will increase per Bernoulli's principle.

Therefore, as the diameter of the discharge hose decreases , the pressure in lbs per square foot increases and the flow rate in gpm will remain the same.

so according to bernouli's principle for fluids by decreasing resistance (area) you increase voltage (force). is that correct for electricity?
what do we measure current in?

CURSES! foiled again!

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/explode.gif
need to get my head back into the books. obviously been a while

;)

I did catch that too. one cm per second would be about one mile every 17.6 hours! (if my tired-a$$ 3:30 a.m. calculations are correct)

as for the rest, I'll check my answers later....

:D

Electron drift velocity
 

Sorry folks, I was wrong. Electrons actually move a hell of a lot SLOWER than 1 cm/second. More like 2.1 milimeters per minute. But thanks for making me check!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1073842391.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1073842438.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1073842455.jpg



If you want clearer pics to peruse, give me your email address and I'll send better files to ya.


-Tom

MrPants -

No. To decrease resistance, you would make the hose larger. Making the hose diameter smaller would increase the resistance.

Fluid in a hose and electricity are very similar, and even the pics I just posted from my old physics text use the water/electricity analogy to help explain. There are differences; fluid flow is actually a lot more complicated than electricity. The principle is close enough for a good explaination, though.

Current is measured in Amperes (or amps). It is a measure of how much charge (not how many electrons) passes a point per unit time. It is analogous to flow rate for fluid in a hose. One amp = 1 coulomb of charge per second (sorta like 1 gallon per minute). The charge on one electron is about 0.0000000000000000001602217 Coulombs.

csu. click on my e-mail icon and send away

Ronin -

How do I attach a file in email? I'm not seeing an attachment button or anything.

-Tom

don't know what you're using. just cut-and-paste my e-mail addy into your preferred e-mail app. that'll work just fine

Insomniacs R Us :D

(edit) btw: CSU. are you talking about latent movement of "stationary" electrons? if not, then that's still not correct. they really do whiz by at near the speed of light

Ok, I though you meant email using the board's means. I'll get them out to you.

Electrons are particles, and have mass. In order to move at the speed of light, an electron would have to have a great enough force to propel it, and resistance would have to be zero. There's simply too much other stuff in the way (other molecules in the wire, for example) for that to happen.

Consider this: billions of dollars have been spent building particle accelerators to try to get an elementary particle (i.e., an electron) moving at the speed of light. We haven't been able to do that yet.

The electric field will move through the wire at about the speed of light, but the individual free electrons move very slowly. The paragraph in the middle of the third page explains this pretty well.

-Tom

Ronin-

Keeps failing when I try to send it to your hotmail address. Got a better address?

true, true, true, true, true! let me slam my head into my desk for ya. the individul electrons themselves do not move much. but the electrical charge does, by way of a domino effect from electron to electron, at near the speed of light. next time I'll be a bit more explicit with my explanations ;)

what's the file size?

Exactly! Electrons and charges are not the same thing.

File size is 663 KB.

check your peee-emmm