automatic/tiptronic into 87 951 - can it be done?

[RichMason]

I know this is sacrilege but...I'm moving to DC in a few weeks and I will have to deal with stop and go traffic. I have some fairly serious knee pain that shows up when I work a clutch in traffic (I'm limping from my interview in DC last week) and I am going to have to drive an automatic once I relocate. If I buy another car, I'm going to drop $15-20K for a tiptronic VW/AUDI or Porsche so I would not be opposed to spending some money to convert my 951 to an automatic (928 unit?) or tip (968 unit?) if it can be done easily and dependably. Anyone have any experience with this?

[SoCal Driver]

Keep the 951 as it is and buy a cheap automatic. Use the difference to store/upgrade the 951.

[RichMason]

SoCal, I hear you but you haven't weighed in on the techical feasibility. Can it be done and how hard is it? There is a complete 968 drivetrain on ebay now for $700, for example. Is there a separate computer that needs to be wired? Is the shifter assembly completely imcompatible with my car? I'm sure it can take the power of a stock 951 but the shift points may not be appropriate. 951s are a dime a dozen these days and getting cheaper and I have made all of the modifications I want to to the car. The problem is I can't drive it!

[SoCal Driver]

It's possible but just the drive train doesn't cut it. There is a lot more that is necessary.

I don't think you have enough time or money to change one. Cheaper to just find an automatic 944 and buy it.

[RichMason]

My budget would be around $5k for parts.

[SoCal Driver]

Just get an auto and don't destroy the turbo.

[Nabeel]

How about making the $15-20K 'other car' a tip 968? Best of both worlds.

[carsontc]

Originally posted by RichMason
Is there a separate computer that needs to be wired?

Besides the half-axle size difference, the tiptronic has lots of solenoids and is controlled by the 968's DME...which is totally incompatable with the 951's

And of course the tip's transaxle has no speedometer hall transmitter in it. The speed signal is picked up from an ABS sensor in one of the wheels which is sent to each of the various computers such as DME, ABS, cruise control...yadda, yadda...oh and the speedometer.

Sell the 951 buy a 968 with a tiptronic and if it's too slow...

then add forced induction

[RichMason]

I found a company near Philly - Motodyne - that specializes in automatic and tiptronic transmissions in German cars. Looks like they do mostly Audi work but I've exchanged a few messages with a technician there and they claim to have done exactly what I'm looking for. The easiest will be an automatic (not tip) from a 92-93 968. Bolts right in and looks factory. It goes up in complexity from there. When I have more information, I'll start a new thread and keep everyone posted.

Cheers,

[Britwrench]

Without being rude to the company you spoke to and also only hearing part of the story, 968 transmissions were only Tiptronic (or 6-speed manual, of course). Bolt right in? maybe, work properly? another question entirely.

[RichMason]

I hear you. Actually, I added the "not tip" part assuming that when he said automatic there was a difference. I'll be more careful with the details. You guys will be my sounding board on this project as it progresses so I appreciate your feedback.

[carsontc]

on the surface it sounds like you would just need the whole 968 engine/transaxle harnesses and the DME etc - it's a 55 pin connector as opposed to the 35 pin DME used in the 944 and 951 8 valve engines

plus the 968 has a MAF as opposed to the pre '92 air meters

but then how do you manage the turbo bits...i.e. knock, boost et al...??

[Britwrench]

Tom is right regarding the potential electrical interface problems.
The "Tip" trans talks to the 968 DME to adapt to different driving conditions. Without that data I can't see the trans working correctly.
It may drive, but witout using the various "maps" in the system.
Personally, I would go and buy a Camry for commuting.

[jetmax]

Don't be a wuss. I have a 1990 s2 Cab w/5 speed manual in the DC metro area and love it. My morning commute is 20 miles (1hr), and I have had 2 knee operations on one knee. The car has 191k miles on it and I'd not be caught in anything else. Not even the 1hr 45 minuites it took me today to get to work.

[Brando]

Get a tip 968.

[Brando]

Or as the porsche mechanics call it, a "Sliptronic".

[RichMason]

I actually spoke with rob at motodyne this afternoon. The automatic from the n/a car is the easiest and least expensive option - around $6000 with a rebuilt and beefed up transmission. The tip will run around $10k. This includes making everything speak to everything else including the DME, speed sensors, etc. This has been done. He has two customers (need to talk to them) who have had their 951s converted to tip. They are not, however, daily drivers but weekend toys. The challenge of this route is servicability. Who is going to work on the thing if I road trip to CA? The big disadvantage of the 944 n/a tranny is durability - how much power and abuse can it take? If I want a 951 because I can spend $3-4k and have 350 rwhp, I need a transmission that can take it.

Oh, and sorry, I'm a wuss and I don't have a problem with it. I don't claim to be disabled but I want a car that's comfortable and suits my needs = automatic 951. Plus, its paid for and I'll never get my money out of it. Might as well modify it.

[Britwrench]

Good luck with the normal VW auto trans, that thing dies with even stock 944 power.
Tips are basically reliable, but 350rwhp is above what the 968 one is designed for.
Yes, serviceability is an issue, if you have a problem the fun starts there.

[UconnTim97]

I've heard good things about Motodyne. My friend is gettng the A4 supercharger, etc. from them