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scottmandue's Avatar
 
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Why turbo at all?

Okay we all know every few weeks we get the question "what do I need to turbo (or SC) my (944/924)"

and we all know the answer,
let's all say it together:
"you can do it if you want to but it is MUCH cheaper to just sell you N/A and buy a (951/931)"

and then the thread degenerates into name calling...

SO this begs the question, why be so obsessed with forced induction? How much HP can you get with carbs (dual webers?) cams and high compression? I know the car would never get through smog check but say you were going for a cheap track car would this be an option?

This is all theoretical of course but just for those guys who want to mod there car why is this old school approach never considered?
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Old 02-07-2004, 02:57 PM
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Re: Why turbo at all?

Quote:
Originally posted by scottmandue

This is all theoretical of course but just for those guys who want to mod there car why is this old school approach never considered?
Probably for the same reason as turbo'ing an Na. You could invest 5-6k into the car and still be slower than a stock 951. Plus you wouldn't have touched the brakes or suspension yet..
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:21 PM
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I don't think you could get any power from changing FI on a 944 to carbs. Eliminating the AFM (and the restriction it provides) maybe worth a couple of hp, maybe. Besides, you will now have ignition timing to worry about... A much more agressive cam might be worth a few horsepower too. I think if you want to stick to an engine that resembles a 944 engine, and want to do it without forced induction, the only bet is higher compression.
Ahmet
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:32 PM
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Higher compression is not going to make a Huge difference.....
To make more hp you need to get more air into the cylinders with the proper ratio of fuel.
Basically......the volumetric efficiency of the engine must be improved. This is effected by everything from the air filter to the exhaust tip. And all mods must work together to actually improve performance.
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75 914 - Undecided.
80 931 - Gone, but not forgotten.
72 914 - old toy- sold.
And a whole bunch of German scrap metal shaped like 924's.


Old enough to know better, and stupid enough to do it anyway!
Old 02-07-2004, 04:40 PM
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I don't get why people don't learn to be satisified with what they have. There will always be something faster. Why not just pick a car you like and make it into something you can appreacite and enjoy. I own/drive/work on my 1978 Porcshe 924 and it is by far not the fastest car I could have gotten for the money but I enjoy the hell out of it (despite trying to die on me sometimes)
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:42 PM
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Look..

Ill say this again..

Us people that ask for such conversions...all we asked for was your expertise in how it could be done.

Not to tell us that a 951 is cheaper...and how our insurance will find out..and all that other bull****.

I just want your help, not your criticizm or your discouraging advice.
Old 02-07-2004, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zlatko
Look..

Ill say this again..

Us people that ask for such conversions...all we asked for was your expertise in how it could be done.

Not to tell us that a 951 is cheaper...and how our insurance will find out..and all that other bull****.

I just want your help, not your criticizm or your discouraging advice.
Well first off: he didn't ask for help, just a theoretical question.

Buying a 951 is cheaper than attempting to modify a non-turbo Porsche motor to the same hp level.

I didn't offer any criticism or discouraging advice, just facts. I was planning on an engine swap in my 931 rather than trying to modify the existing platform. But since I purchased the 951 I am going to leave the 931 stock "engine wise" and sell it.

I have nothing against swapping a different engine into a 924/944. Some people (me included) like to modify our vehicles to fit our needs and desires. Some don't, and think they should all be stock, its just personal preference.
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75 914 - Undecided.
80 931 - Gone, but not forgotten.
72 914 - old toy- sold.
And a whole bunch of German scrap metal shaped like 924's.


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Old 02-07-2004, 06:02 PM
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Anything is possible, it is only limited by your wallet. Most times, the "modifications, upgrades" or whatever you call them are just not worht it.
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Old 02-07-2004, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Britwrench
Anything is possible, it is only limited by your wallet.
plans for wedging a Pratt & Whitney tubofan into the '51 are already in the works!
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Old 02-07-2004, 07:51 PM
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We have a very nice Chevrolet ZL-1 motor just for you. It will look factory..'onest guv..
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From November 2012; Precision Porsche Specialist
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Old 02-07-2004, 08:15 PM
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vott does ziss do?
 
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yeh. Lansing Michigan, that is
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Old 02-07-2004, 10:14 PM
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The real question... Why not?
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Current: '86 951 Sunroof Delete - '89 951 - '83 944 Spec - '08 Cayenne Turbo
Past: '88 924S Track - '86 944 16v - '87 951 - '87 951 - '88 951S - '08 Cayman S - '87 944 Track - '93 968
Old 02-07-2004, 10:37 PM
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Old 02-07-2004, 11:13 PM
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i think some people do it because 1) they have too much time on thier hands and 2) how many of you would like to be able to have a unique car that you said YOU did YOURSELF? i mean its not always about speed and Hp. sometimes its about being the odd man out. with all the time and money it costs it is an accomplishment. how many of you would be able and willing to do it?


*ducks and covers*
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Special Edition 924S 1988 <- SOLD!

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Old 02-07-2004, 11:53 PM
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oh and i forgot to add... just think about how we get to point a fingure at them and laugh and say "HA! told you youd fail! HAHAHAHAHA"

i mean isnt that a great feeling too?!
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Special Edition 924S 1988 <- SOLD!

Asking if you should replace that timing belt is like asking if you should re-use a condom that may have in hole in it with a hooker.
Old 02-07-2004, 11:55 PM
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I have also wondered how a quad carbed 944 engine would be like. individual intake runners for each cylinder with velocity stacks. I am thinking of a similar set up as a inline 4 motorcycle engine that gets 150 hp per liter of displacement. I could go rob the carbs of a 1200 cc crotch rocket and make the custom intakes myself. I was thinking 44 mm carbs.

This is what sitting inside wishing for spring does to youwhen it is 10 degrees outside with a foot of snow surrounding you.
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Old 02-08-2004, 06:00 AM
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I used to belong to the NHRA and went to the shows, even with my 944. No one made little of the efforts of the members to customize and modify, There was one guy who very tastefully put a Ford 289 into an Opel GT, the only thing giving it away were the traction bars in the back. I see the 944 as a perfect "vehicle" (nopun intended) for anyone who wanted to experiment, and did not intend to turn it into a "daily driver" with 500 HP. One friend of mine here in Tucson has a 1965 Mustang, grand show winner, and he has sunk 50k into it over the years, Does this make sense? Not on an economic level, but damn,,it sure is a sweet ride...And his wife can always find him.......I would rather see someone engaged in that kind of pursuit than drinking up the $$$ or worse....
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Old 02-08-2004, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolf1
Higher compression is not going to make a Huge difference.....
To make more hp you need to get more air into the cylinders with the proper ratio of fuel.
Basically......the volumetric efficiency of the engine must be improved. This is effected by everything from the air filter to the exhaust tip. And all mods must work together to actually improve performance.
Not much you can do this side of FI will make a "huge" difference.

PS: Raising the compression is exactly what you need to do to improve the VE of the engine.
Ahmet
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Old 02-08-2004, 10:56 AM
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I agree with MoneyMan and scheistermeiste. The main reasons I modified my 924S are

1. Becaues its a fun hobby and I learned alot

2. Because I dont want to be like ever other 924/944 I like to do it a little diferent.

3. I like fabricating and thinking of new ideas and then applying them.

4. There is nothing better then sitting in the Garage with Your Porsche in the summer time drinking a Cola and playing with new Ideas and getting dirty, Then taking it out ripping down the road with windows down happy with the results That you did it and it was fun.

It might not be the cheapest thing but its better then Drinking and doing drugs and gang wars HAHAHA
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Old 02-08-2004, 11:01 AM
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1.2gees, does compression ratio really have that much to do with VE? I thought cam timing and exhaust and intake efficiency had more to do with VE. Compression helps with extracting power from the intake charge, but better filling of the cylinder isn't dependant on CR. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 02-08-2004, 01:09 PM
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