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S2 Help

I am looking at an 89 S2 Coupe. Owner is asking $8900. The car has been hit, driver front fender, and the fender has been replaced, and it looks very clean except that the fender repair (nicely matched paint, from the side I couldn't tell which fender) has left the nose slightly uneven. It looks like a little body work should fix it, but I'm not sure. Car has 115K miles, owner has records for last 15K miles (since he's owned it). It that time, he's done the cam chain tensioner, but not the water pump, or timing belt. Almost everything works, and it's a nice car. Car is NOT m030 or LSD, unfortunately. I have a couple of questions for the experts here:
1. Could the nose be a problem to fix? What are people's experiences with body damage here?
2. Clutch has never been done. Heard here this runs $1500 P & L.
3. Water pump and timing belt need to be done (for mental health reasons, since I don't know when it WAS done)... Another $1200?
4. I will get a PPI, obviously, but I am happy to take suggestions regarding an offer price if the car does check out. My opinion is the price is decent, but Porsches are not common here, and I think only Porschephiles would pay $9K for a 944 (S2) because they know what it is. Most people would see the ad and just say. "$9K for a 944? Crazy..." So, I'm guessing there is not a lot of traffic for this car.
5. I am not set on an S2, just seems like a nice car (and falls into my favorite local PCA chapter autox class). It is not the color I am looking for (my favorite Porsche color is "Not red.")

Thanks in advance for the suggestions and advice.

Naparsei
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Last edited by naparsei; 02-08-2004 at 06:46 PM..
Old 02-08-2004, 06:42 PM
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Re: S2 Help

Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei
My opinion is the price is decent, but Porsches are not common here, and I think only Porschephiles would pay $9K for a 944 (S2)

Where are you located?

9k sounds like a lot to me....
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Old 02-08-2004, 06:49 PM
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payed 5.5k for mine.
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Old 02-08-2004, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
3. Water pump and timing belt need to be done (for mental health reasons, since I don't know when it WAS done)... Another $1200?
Timing belt, balance shaft belt, and all associated rollers for my S2 was less than $600. Does replacing water pump too double the price? (I didn't replace water pump because mine has only 30K miles.)
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Old 02-08-2004, 08:13 PM
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The car also has "Ventilier" body color on the molding/strip ahead of the doors. I know this word is associated with the 16v heads, but before I saw the car (the s2 I've seen parked), I thought Ventilier was something that just showed up on the S.

Also, Cooler... how long ago did you buy yours?
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Last edited by naparsei; 02-09-2004 at 04:52 AM..
Old 02-09-2004, 04:45 AM
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Re: S2 Help

Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei
5. I am not set on an S2, just seems like a nice car (and falls into my favorite local PCA chapter autox class). It is not the color I am looking for (my favorite Porsche color is "Not red.")

Naparsei
Hehe, that was my saying too, and guess what? The 944S2 I finally bought turned out to be Guard's Red! My car was well maintained, and in great shape, so I couldn't pass on it! BTW: I paid $8k for mine, back in 2001.

If you take care of the timing belt and clutch, it sounds like you have a pretty decent 944S2. See if he'll go down to an even $8k. If the H2O pump isn't leaking or acting up, just leave it alone.

While your at it, you should replace the rollers with the timing belt, as well as the seals and gaskets (oil cooler seal, valve cover gasket, cam seal...etc). Yeah, it's more $$, but your garage floor will be 'fluid free.'

Besides autox, what else do you plan on doing with your car?

Good luck!
-Z-man.
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Old 02-09-2004, 05:50 AM
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Most or all of the gaskets/seals have been done, apparently, in the past 15K mileage. The current owner is not leak tolerent (as a long time 911 owner, I have learned to be otherwise). I haven't fully reviewed the records yet. I will autox the car & DE the car primarily, drive it on marginal weather days (when I think the weather will be good, but don't want to get caught in snow/heavy rain in the Boxster), and on day trips. I would probably work the suspension, get a second set of rims, and just keep it running strong (possibly add a LSD if it seems necessary - I fall into "the factory was did it right the first time" on engine mods).

The rear wing/spoiler has surface cracks, since the sun can be pretty here. It is on the surface, but I'm guessing there is no easy way to clean that, b/c the rest of the car is so clean. It doesn't look like it is damaged, and there is no evidence of leaking.

Assuming I can get the price to a better level, my concerns would be:
1. The nose being "off" is marginally noticeable, but is it indicative of something bad ($$$)
2. Is "Ventilier" side markings correct for this car?
3. Z-man, if I were to take your suggestion, and do rollers and timing belt (have it done, I plan on doing future work, but right now time is more important than money for several reasons), do you know a rough range for P & L? FWIW, thanks a lot for the .doc 944 buyer's checklist from PANO. I've made some modest changes, but it is great.
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Old 02-09-2004, 06:27 AM
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Glad you could use the checklist, naparsei! (BTW: It was based on an article in Excellence, not PANO -- gotta give credit to them!)

I can go back and check my records, but I had a bunch of stuff done at once on my car when I got the timing belt and rollers done. (Cam chain guide, all seals & gaskets...etc). IIRC, the bill was itemized, so I could put them together. (Just don't forget, I live in NJ, where prices tend to be higher than elsewhere...)

If you are getting an extra set of rims, a strongly suggest the following:
Set two 7Jx16's and four 8Jx16's. For autox stock class, you probably have to stay with 7Jx16's in the front, but for DE's, 8Jx16's will fit up front! So for DE's, you can run 245/45/16's at all four corners, which will help dial out the inherent understeer in our cars, and it will allow for better tire management! Depending on the tire you get (non-directional / symetrical the preferred type), you should be able to rotate your tires front to back, left to right! Thus, you can greatly even out the tire wear at DE's. - Just a suggestion.

-Zoltan.
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Old 02-09-2004, 07:18 AM
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Z-man,

Does your car (or any one else w/ an S2) have "Ventilier" on the protective door holdings strip? The words are body color, and just ahead of each door.

Nice suggestion on the wheels. That makes a lot of sense. Our local PCA is fairly liberal on classing (you get points for mods, and 5 points knocks you out of stock class), so I might be able to run larger tires all around if the 8s aren't too hard to steer at lower speeds.
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Old 02-09-2004, 07:26 AM
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naparsei:
Yep, my S2 has the "16 Ventilier" badges on the bump strips on either side: it was one of those "some have it, some don't" options. (Based on what shelf they pulls the piece from in the factory )

The 245's aren't too hard to steer at lower speeds: I've run a PCA Zone1 autox event with them, (like your region, they had less strict classing), and found them to be quite effective going around the cones! (On day one, I used the 7Jx16's with 225-50/16's, and was 2 seconds behind the 2nd place guy. On day two, I switched to the 8Jx16's with 245's, and got around the 2nd place guy, to take 2nd place overall! )

-Z.
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Old 02-09-2004, 07:46 AM
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My S2 has the 16 Ventiler badge too, as does my father-in-law's.
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Old 02-09-2004, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei
The car also has "Ventilier" body color on the molding/strip ahead of the doors. I know this word is associated with the 16v heads, but before I saw the car (the s2 I've seen parked), I thought Ventilier was something that just showed up on the S.

Also, Cooler... how long ago did you buy yours?

Couple monthes ago. I have the "16 Ventilier" on the molding right before the doors.
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Old 02-09-2004, 09:25 AM
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That's option code 598 for the 16 ventiler side marking.
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Old 02-09-2004, 03:43 PM
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By 1991, it apparently wasn't an option anymore.
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Old 02-09-2004, 04:20 PM
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I don't know if it was an option or not, by I am inclined to agree w/ Z-man. The car I saw did not have 598 as an option, but it could have been added later. According to the option decoder I have though, you are correct. For some car (maybe the 944S? or was it the S2?) it was option 598.
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Old 02-10-2004, 04:41 AM
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My car did not come with option code 598, but as I stated above, it did have the "16 Ventiliter" badging.

It's kinda like the handles that had "Porsche" embossed on them vs those that didn't!

-Z.
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Old 02-10-2004, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Z-man
If you are getting an extra set of rims, a strongly suggest the following:
Set two 7Jx16's and four 8Jx16's. For autox stock class, you probably have to stay with 7Jx16's in the front, but for DE's, 8Jx16's will fit up front! So for DE's, you can run 245/45/16's at all four corners, which will help dial out the inherent understeer in our cars, and it will allow for better tire management!
-Zoltan.
Why not 8" in front, 9" in back - didn't M030 come w/ 9X16? Switch your rears to fronts, and drop the 9" on? It seems like a wide variety of wheels will fit, including some 964, 928, & 933 rims. I am a fan of sticking w/ 16" wheels, though, for reasons discussed here. If my list is correct (sizes are right, these are all 8X16 wheels w/ late offset - but it seems like all late offsets might not be equal...) these (factory) wheels are possibilities:
Phone Dials
Design 90
Club Sport
Disc
C2 Turbo
993 Cast
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Old 02-10-2004, 08:22 AM
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Option code 598 was for side moldings in general, and all S/S2s having 598 also had the "16 Ventiler" (aka 16 Valve) molding, I believe.

I remember reading this somewher, but saw an S2 with moldings.......and no 16 Ventiler on them. Looks like it was a pot luck kinda thing.
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei
Why not 8" in front, 9" in back - didn't M030 come w/ 9X16? Switch your rears to fronts, and drop the 9" on? It seems like a wide variety of wheels will fit, including some 964, 928, & 933 rims. I am a fan of sticking w/ 16" wheels, though, for reasons discussed here. If my list is correct (sizes are right, these are all 8X16 wheels w/ late offset - but it seems like all late offsets might not be equal...) these (factory) wheels are possibilities:
Phone Dials
Design 90
Club Sport
Disc
C2 Turbo
993 Cast
I don't think the S2 ever came with 9Jx16 rear, even with the M030 option. IIRC, the 951S and 89 951 came with greater than 8 inch wide wheels on the back.

The reason to stick with 8Jx16 at all four corners for me is two fold:
1. Help balance out the car: a staggered tire setup typically lends to more understeer: something I am trying hard to dial out! The whole idea of using 8Jx16's front is to be able to run with the same width tire front to back. By going with an even wider wheel & tire out back, you do have more grip, but you've taken a step backward in terms of handling: the car will most likely exhibit more understeer again. As you can probably tell by now, I don't like understeer on the track: some people prefer an understeering setup from a safety standpoint, but I prefer a car that exhibits better turn in, and slight oversteer. (More neutral in handling).

2. Tire management: with the same size tire and wheels at all four corners, I can even out the tire wear on my set of R-compounds. This enables me to potentially use up all of the 4 tires at an equal time interval. Otherwise, I'd have to get front tires sooner, and thus, I'd be running on new fronts, and used rears, which I don't like from an 'unpredictability' standpoint.

Regarding the wheels you mention: IIRC, they all should fit, but make sure the offsets are the 'late offset' type (52.3mm rear, 55mm front -- 52.3mm will also work in the front) I have the 968 5-spokes and 2 D-90's currently. (But I'm always lookin' for more!)

Hope I didn't confuse you,
-Z
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:05 AM
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