How fast is a 3.0 or 3.2 L 911?
 

How do you compare these 911 3.0 or 3.2 NAs with 951 and S2? Are they faster or slower? I think they are a little bit heavier with same range of power. Am I wrong?
Any heads up?

Any years in particular? Either way I would think that the 911 would be quicker. No turbo lag there. Not easily moded though.

My father has a 93' 911 RS America. It will completely kill my 951. Conering, accleration, 0-60. And top end.

I think 80-83 3.0L and 84-86 3.2L are what can afford and want to consider.
From auto info at msn.com, 88 3.2L (the latest one I can see) only has 214 hp and 195 torque with 2756 lb. That's very close to S2 at 208hp/207 and 2880 lb. I think 3.0L 911 numbers are alot less than 3.2L.
So why are 911s are faster than S2 and 951?

Older 911's are lighter than 944's. A friend of mine has an '83 911sc. A 911sc has 180hp, but only weighs around 2100 lbs. Compared to a 951 with 217 hp and nearly 3000 lbs, the 911sc has a better power to weight ratio.

2100 lb/180 hp=11.7 With this ratio, 951 has to have 240hp to catch up with 911sc (2800 lb/11.7= 240hp.
Am I right? Doesn't sound too hard to do for a 951.

Common misconception. In reality, the 3.0L SC and 3.2L Carrera both weigh about 2800lbs. Some of the RS models are a different story, but they are so rare and valuable you could probably buy 20 951s (or a 911GT2) for the cost of one of them. The only non R/RS 911s to weigh anywhere near 2100lbs are the short wheelbase cars from the late 60s..


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'86 951 Graphite Metallic/Tan

The last time I was at the track in my 951 (three weeks ago) I was running the car in nearly stock trim (only the air filter had been changed) and in my run group was a stock 86 carrera. And I know drivers do make a difference, but was lapping the track 5-6 sec faster (Carolina Motorsports Park). I would say out of the box the 951 is a quicker track car, but now that my car is modified the next track experience won't be a fair comparison. Actually there were two 911's in my group (the other one was a 88 I think) and that one was quite a bit slower as well.
Just my .02

The 951 in either 87 (or possibly 88) was the fastest Porsche model made in stock form.

-MAS

What, MAS? How about a newer 911 Turbo, with 4.0 sec 0-60, 12.5-sec. 1/4 mile and 180 mph-plus top speed?

I run my '89 S2 with 1984-1988 911s (I believe these have the 3.2-liter engine) in PCA autocrosses. The two cars are very similar in respect to power/weight ratios. I don't have a limited-slip diff, and I think the 911s have an advantage putting the power down out of low and medium-speed corners...they don't spin the inside rear like I do.

--Doug

Doug914: MAS meant that they were the fastest cars of the time when they were released. It's only because the 911 Turbo of the time was in a lapse between generations.

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'86 951 Graphite Metallic/Tan

911s can be made extremely fast, but be prepared to spend alot more money to buy one and own one. My friend has an 81 targa with a high compression rebuilt engine and 6 webbers on it. It's a rocket, but the carbs don't allow it run right at lower rpms. Once he revs it past 3k, though it sounds like a monster. he wants to sell it for 16k

"Doug914: MAS meant that they were the fastest cars of the time when they were released. It's only because the 911 Turbo of the time was in a lapse between generations."

Yes, that's what I meant... sorry if I wasn't clear.

-MAS

A HUGE factor in performance is the driver. At my first DE event with PCA, the newbie rungroup was full of cars with better hp than my lowly 944, including a Boxster S, several 911 Carerras, even a 996. I wasn't the fastest around the track (Lime Rock Park) and a lot of the cars would pull away from me in the straights, but in the corners, I was faster than some of these cars! They would eventually slow down in the straights to let me go by. Granted, many cars passed me too, but the point is: driver skill has alot to do with it. Anybody can drive fast in a straight line: it's the twisties that make things interesting. (Disclaimer: my reference to straight line fast driving does not pertain to official 1/4 mile racing: that definately requires a skill to be effective)

Note: I'm not saying I'm the best driver in the world, just that I may have a little more experience than others. Just my $0.42.
-Zoltan.

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PCA NNJR
My Toy:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...ds/Zslalom.JPG

[This message has been edited by Z-man (edited 10-10-2001).]

I don't know if I made that clear, I don't think I did in my earlier post, but I really do agree that the driver is a huge factor. Given the right drivers a VW golf can lap some courses a fast as a Viper. But as soon as that guy driving the viper figures stuff out he will be the faster driver again.

So driver skill does play a huge role, in my earlier post when said I was faster than the two 911's I am assuming an equal skill level because we had all had similar track time.

If you want to be a quick driver there is no substitute for practice, make yourself a better driver first and then get more horse power. This is why my engine is stock, I want to learn the dynamics of my 951 before I start thinking about 300hp.

The reason I think the 944 makes such a good race platform is its inherent balance, 50/50 in the wieght distribution deparment, and steady predictable handling make this a good learning car. The 911's are much harder to drive, but in the hands of a skilled driver the dynamics of a 911 make them hard to beat. They have a stiff chaisis and can take full advantage of the weight transfer under braking and acceleration, but watch out you screw up in a 911 and you are going ass end first in a direction you probably didn't want to be going. You screw up in a 944 you have a bit of time to catch it. Of course if you screw up bad enough in anything and you are not going to be happy with the result.

test

In 1986 The 944 Turbo was Porsches Fastest production car that came to America for that year. My source is Car & Driver I beleive Aug 85 edition (i will check). It was also the FASTEST CAR IN America in 86 until the Ferrari Testarossa came out in 87 which was faster. I will try and scan some of the images if my scanner works.

Dan
87 951 42k miles
87 951 200k oil cooler replacment underway

Hmm. I think the Countach of that year might have been faster, but it was made in such small numbers that I don't really consider it a producion car.

Yep, the '86 944 Turbo was quite the sensation. Just helped my friend pull the cylinder head off his car over the weekend (more hoses than a garden supply store!) and was admiring the attention to aero underneath the car, specifically the plastic panels beneath the footwells...also neat channels for brake cooling, and those 90-degree sheet-metal pieces on the struts that direct air toward the rotors. Those engineers in Weissach/Zuffenhausen/Wolfsburg/Ingolstadt/
wherever think of everything! If I remember right, the coefficient of drag is something like 0.29-0.30, phenomenal for its day.

--Doug

The Turbo has a Cd of .33 (compared to .35 on the NAs) and a frontal area of 1.89sq/m which resulted in the best overall aerodynamics of any production car built at the time.

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'86 951 Graphite Metallic/Tan