Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
Angry New water pump.....STILL LEAKING boo hoo!

Some of you may remember my old thread on this problem
Coolant leaking from my baby!
So I took of the belly pan, and the coolant was definitely coming from the water pump area. So, although I was distraught about my pump going out, I bit the bullet and got a new pump.
So this weekend I dissected the car down to the pump, took it off and installed a brand new out of the box turbo pump. The install seemed to go well, I took my time and tried to get everything perfect. So after re-installing the belts etc I started the car......STILL LEAKING!
The surface on the engine and the water pump both looked good, and I used a new seal on the pump. So I feel like it's pretty unlikely that the water pump is leaking. So now I'm totally befuddled, not to mention completely frustrated. While the car was up on ramps and the engine was running, it was losing coolant at the rate of about a drop a second. I was under there with the trouble light, and I could see coolant flowing down the engine block just above the main hose of the pump, on the passenger side of the engine. With the back of my head against the front passenger side wheel, the spot where I could see coolant coming down the engine block was pretty much directly behind my oil filter by my line of site. I'll try to find some pictures to mark up or maybe try to get some of my own engine.
Anyway, if it isn't the pump what could it be? Opinions or advice would be great, I want to fix this ASAP. It sucks driving around with a big bottle of coolant to fill up the resorvoir anytime I want to drive somewhere.
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-16-2004, 04:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TCMdocs944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 1,990
Head gasket? Seems like the only thing up there.

Loose head bolt?
__________________
83 944 white w/Boxster wheels
Planned mods- custom leather interior, 968 antenna, soundsystem, 968 style rockers, clear sidemarkers
Old 02-16-2004, 05:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
Wouldn't a bad head gasket produce some of the famous white smoke from my exhaust? Exhaust looks/smells fine (maybe a bit rich, I am going to install a new O2 sensor) and my coolant and oil are both looking normal.
Is it possible to have a head gasket leaking to the outside only?
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-16-2004, 05:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
I'm off the hook.....
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: 22 miles south, then 11 miles west of LAS
Posts: 2,895
Oil Cooler. Lots to go wrong there. Look at the exploded parts view.

By the time this is over, you'll have done 2 of the three worst jobs on a 944.
__________________
No, I don't sing. Based there for too long.
Old 02-16-2004, 05:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ae1969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 4,530
Send a message via ICQ to ae1969
The leak is more than likely from the oil cooler......

2 of the 3 worst jobs..... uhmmm I think the Clutch, Oil Pan Gasket, Head Gasket .... rank above these 2.
__________________
Alex - PCA Polar Region - Boxster Muncher
86' 944 Turbo - Megasquirt - 326 rwhp/340lbft @ 18 psi SOLD
www.edmontonhomelife.com
www.edmontonrealestate.ws
Old 02-16-2004, 06:10 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
Oil Cooler?

So you guys think it's the seal on the oil cooler leaking coolant from the block? I always figured oil cooler failure and the dreaded "milkshake" went hand in hand. Would this procedure from Clark's garage cover it?
Clark's garage procedure
Also, how much will this cost me in terms of parts and time? The pump job took me about 7 hours from putting the car up on jacks to taking it down, if that's a good gauge.
Thanks for the input guys!
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-16-2004, 06:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Zero10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 1,883
Send a message via ICQ to Zero10
Your leak sounds just like mine, and I ruled out the water pump already. My lower rad hose seeps a little, but the hose clamp is messed up. I think mine is the oil cooler seals as well.
From what I understand, the oil cooler seals should take about as long as a water pump.
__________________
2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring, GLS 5 speed, Indigo Blue Metallic. 2.0L of Korean fury!

Buy my parts!
Old 02-16-2004, 08:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Cleburne,Tx
Posts: 1,197
Garage
I had a similar leak on my 83, it was the freeze plug behind the timing cover, above the water pump, check it out.
__________________
Texas hosts the 928 Owner’s Club OCIC in 2009
www.928ocicdfw09.com
1980 928 5 speed and a few mods..........
928 OC member
PCA member
Old 02-17-2004, 12:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
FLA944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
Posts: 317
Send a message via AIM to FLA944 Send a message via Yahoo to FLA944
I agree either oil cooler (except you would see leakage at bottom of cooler not front of the engine)

I suspect the freeze plug on front of head. Mine was paper thin when rebuilt the head could put my finger thru it.

Rick
__________________
'83 944 "Guards Red"
New Everything (seems like)
16" 968 Wheels
has never left garage (yet)
Old 02-17-2004, 04:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
So guys, I'm familiar with the concept of a "freeze plug" on an engine block, but can't say I've ever noticed the one on my engine. So first question: location. You say it's just above the water pump under the timing belt cover? Do I need to remove my belts to get to it, or is it fairly accessible?
Second question: Parts.
Do I just take out the old freeze plug and install a new one? Any extras (gaskets?) needed or is it really straightforward?
For what it's worth, the overflow resorvoir consistently stops depleting when the level of the coolant is just below the seam of the top/front of the resorvoir. If the leak is just above the pump this would seem to make some sense, since the level would be about the same.
Thanks again for the input guys!
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-17-2004, 05:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
PS a quick perusal of the pelicanparts site didn't turn up any freeze plugs. Any info on where to purchase such a beast?
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-17-2004, 05:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
FLA944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
Posts: 317
Send a message via AIM to FLA944 Send a message via Yahoo to FLA944
The freeze plug is located on the front of the head. Look below the Radiator Hose behind the T-Belt Cover and you will see a round hole with the metal plug in it. Use a flashlight and see if it is the leaking culprit.

The freeze plug is a standard item (forget the size). Not a slam dunk have to remove the head and recommend that a machine shop remove the old one and press in the new one. So, make sure it is the problem! If you try to pound in yourself it will not go straight and fail early (first time you drive it)

The best way to keep the freeze plug from failing is to only use distilled water in your cooling system. The iron in tap water will cause all steel items to rust prematurely and reak havoc with your radiator.

Rick
__________________
'83 944 "Guards Red"
New Everything (seems like)
16" 968 Wheels
has never left garage (yet)
Old 02-17-2004, 06:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
Yikes, you need to remove the head to replace it?
If it turns out to be the culprit, what would you estimate the shop time/cost to be?
FWIW, I always top off with distilled. I restore antique cars, and with those you have all sorts of corrodable metals used in the cooling system.
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-17-2004, 06:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
TCMdocs944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 1,990
Removing the head isn't particularly difficult....except for the exhaust manifold if some of the bolts are a little "sticky".

If you do that, do yourself a big favor and do the oil cooler seals at that time. The only thing that made that job difficult was that the exh. man. kept getting in the way.


Sounds like you really just need to do a bit more investigation with a mirror maybe until you isolate the leak. Hate to have you pull the whole head unnecessarily.
__________________
83 944 white w/Boxster wheels
Planned mods- custom leather interior, 968 antenna, soundsystem, 968 style rockers, clear sidemarkers
Old 02-17-2004, 07:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
Should I be able to see it leaking if I take off the upper belt cover and run the engine?
Also, if I need a new freeze plug, is it the type of thing where I should just take the head off the car and take it to my friendly neighborhood machine shop? Do I need to supply the plug or is it a standardized thing that they will have or can fabricate?
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-17-2004, 07:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
SoCal Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 8,587
Garage
I was set to put a new radiator in because I thought mine was leaking. Taking off the hoses I found one that was loose.

Go figure.
__________________
Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
Never break more than you fix!
Old 02-17-2004, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Feelin' Solexy
 
Tishabet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,333
I wish my leak were as simple as that SoCal. It bums me out when my beloved 944 isn't working right.
__________________
Grant
1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1974 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special, 2008 Mini Cooper S, 2010 Mazda CX-9, 1986 VW Vanagon Syncro Westfalia, 1989 VW Doka Tristar - in the stable
1989 Porsche 944, 1973 VW Beetle - gone but not forgotten
Old 02-17-2004, 10:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
FLA944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
Posts: 317
Send a message via AIM to FLA944 Send a message via Yahoo to FLA944
There is no need to remove the T-Belt cover.

1.) Stand @ front of vehicle with running and warmed up (cooling system pressurized)
2.) take mag light in right hand and illuminate the area behind the Rear T-Belt cover Below the upper radiator hose.
3.) Look between rear of the T-Belt Cover and front of the head and look for wetness - dripping
4.) if area is yucky clean w/ purple power first and rinse.
5.) Do not remove anything until offending leak location has been identified.

Rick
__________________
'83 944 "Guards Red"
New Everything (seems like)
16" 968 Wheels
has never left garage (yet)
Old 02-17-2004, 11:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
BerkeleyChemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 19
Garage
Send a message via AIM to BerkeleyChemist
This is an ancient thread, but I may have some insight for the subject. I seem to be having the same problem. The w-pump has been updated at 90k. Now at 125k, there is a 8 oz loss of coolant/week. The Pors dealer noticed when ajusting belts but didnt pinpoint the source. It is in same area, hoping not the oil-coooler seals or head gasket. Speculate it could be plastic block off, freeze plug, w-pump gasket, or..lower hose. I need to get to this soon. The cooling system is the most uncertain area of a 944 in my opionion...

A freeze plug looks like a bottle cap, and a good way to insert one w/o decapitation...haha...removing the head is too heat the engine anyway feasible and "freeze" the freeze plug so it will be easier to insert and less crocked. LN2 ~ -190C, be careful (liq nitrogen can deactive your flesh) its good if you can get your hands on it but not in it, and cold also comes in handy for rear bearings as well. I still think problems to the cooling system are from physical phenomina, not chemical - phosphates/disolved solids/chelates whaterver. Unless you have well water, it shouldn't be an issue. Frequency in maintaining w/ a flush per year should be sufficient...well at least where I live, Eastbay MUD states dissoled solids in ppb (parts per billlion). That's nothing. The distilled H2O is a nice touch, Deionized is better and a conductivity meter helps measuring trace electrolytic activity...but back to physical dilemas, friction, vibration, temperatures, pressures, high current blowing the relay or temp sensor, or having a physical disability that prevents you from getting under the car to look for yourself. Physics is fun, and chemistry is just coagulated physical concepts anyway. This whole flush my pipes with distilled water has me down more so than replacing oil seals. I would rather get disgustingly dirty than clean anyday. Do I create an Ion exchange column to conjure pure water or go to Safewayfor some jugs? You should see my design for a twisted twin turbine cooling fan I may implement some day. For now I must dream about that famous German Nobel Prize winning chemist. Which one? Carl Bosch name sound familiar? The guy that made large scale ammonia processes realistic. NH3 is a good coolant, the only problem is it goes into gas phase way too soon. I wonder if deuterated water has a higher heat capacity than normal water? Some day I will get that car stabilized and worry free. After I change the seals, head gasket, hoses, wasserpump again, a belt or 3, radiator and reservoir, the fuel injection and pump, most of the rubber trim, clutch, motor mounts and motor oil, then I can go back to my lair and brew something worthy to palate, even for a finicky Krauwt like BOSCH, which reminds me to check these plugs for residue and the chambers for compression. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. Its a hobby I swear and an expensive one at that. Break it down into basics, and its all process control strategy...but don't take my word for it, just ask Carl

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/chemistry/laureates/1931/bosch-bio.html

[IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Dwight%20Egbert/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/126212079237.jpge:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Dwight%20Egbert/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/126212079237.jpg[IMG]http://[/IMG]
__________________
1983 944
1999 TrekUSPSCarbon

Last edited by BerkeleyChemist; 12-13-2006 at 02:56 PM..
Old 12-13-2006, 02:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Mein Gott!
 
Panzer909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,520
Garage
I have a similar issue but found that a hose under the brake booster near the firewall was leaking like crazy. Was a bear to get to. Might be overly-obvious, but worth a look see regardless:
__________________
Johnny
1987 944S
1984 944 (R.I.P.)
1972 Triumph TR6 - 100% trouble free between breakdowns
2003 BMW 325xi
Old 12-13-2006, 04:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:26 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.