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Gas Prices

Have a fellow that sends me transportation goodies now and then. Here is a part of one.

"Why is gasoline more expensive in Europe than in the United
States?


In 2002, crude oil accounted for about 43 percent of the cost of a gallon of
regular grade gasoline; refining costs and profits comprised about 13
percent; distribution, marketing, and retail dealer costs and profits made
up 13 percent; and federal, state, and local taxes accounted for
approximately 31 percent of the cost.

Gasoline prices in countries such as the United Kingdom and Norway can
sometimes reach $5 per gallon because of high taxes. According to the Wall
Street Journal, taxes in the United Kingdom account for 80 percent of the
pump price, while the Europe-wide average is between 60 and 70 percent.

In Germany, gasoline taxes account for a whopping 20 percent of all
government revenues. "

Most of the taxes on Euro gas go to funding other than roads. This is what is happening with our (US's) gas tax. More than 20 percent is being diverted at this time.
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:07 AM
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{MY OPINION} Gas taxes are meant to punish people who drive a lot, or drive cars that don't get great gas mileage (SUVs). It's an easy target, because nobody feels sorry for the (assumed) rich person who drives an SUV. They justify it by saying that the SUVs contribute more to 'global warming', so they should pay more.

The price of gas isn't a function of supply and demand at all. If it was, we'd be buying $0.99/gallon gas.
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:27 AM
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I find it ironic that the states and feds make more off of a gallon than the refinery and retailers.
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Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:37 AM
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You wanna believe gas is expensive in Germany... like anywhere from Euro 1.09 to 1.20 (per litre) depending on the grade, mind you their octane ratings kick ours, 100 octane is readily available. The roads are far better, even in small towns as well, so more of their taxes have to be actually going to road work...

As for me, my gas costs me about 48 Euro cents a litre, thanks to military gas ration coupons...
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:52 AM
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I've been staying away, but this is too juicy to skip.

Tax: A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups or businesses within the domain of that government.

Nobody likes taxes, but it is a cost of paying for shared services. What, you don't want police and fire protection, education for our children, libraries, parks, military (whoops, now I did it!), social programs (did it again), and other stuff that governments provide. It costs money and it's gotta come from taxes. Besides, if federal, state, and local governments did not collect taxes from gasoline, they would simply make it up elsewhere (property, sales, or income taxes).

Here you have a choice: Don't like the tax, don't use the product. At least with a gas tax (as with cigarettes and liquor) the users pay their fair share based on usage, unlike income taxes where how much you pay is inversely proportional to how much politicians want your vote.

We in the USA love to complain about high taxes, but compared to other countries, we get off easy. Imagine what our income tax would be if the federal government was required to balance it's budget.
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:37 PM
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I dont like High gas prices, I dont drive a SUV But my Porsche only gets 11 miles per Gal. HAHAHAH. I can tatse the pollution.
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:47 PM
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I remember I used to get around on the change that fell out of peoples pockets back in the day. Sport seats are great.

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Old 02-17-2004, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fast924S
I dont like High gas prices, I dont drive a SUV But my Porsche only gets 11 miles per Gal. HAHAHAH. I can tatse the pollution.
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Old 02-17-2004, 02:42 PM
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HAHAHA.... with the mods I have and the way I drive (redline every gear all the time) It eats gass, Plus when I caculated my MPG last, I didnt have the A/f ratio properly tuned on my MAF kit
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:05 PM
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I have no problem with taxes. Im all for self sufficiant government. My problem is the way government and politicians allocate those taxes.

Local governments are usually much better at spending tax money than state and federal governments. Local governments ussualy have limited funds and run a pretty tight budget. They pay for most of the "services" that you were referring to.

State and federal goverments have a HUGE amount of cash flowing in. Unfortunately they abuse it and spend the money very quick and sloppy. There are thousands of programs and services that are unreasonably funded. Not to mention the huge salarys that must be paid to people that in some cases do nothing more than sit at home all day.

Ever see that guy on tv that sells the book about government grants? It's a pretty thick book. Where do you think that grant money comes from? How about the corrupt side of politicians? In my own state an independant audit company found a discrepancy of 13 million dollars in the department of human services. 13 MILLION! Thats alot of gas!

And as far as I know all tax is based on usage, even income tax. Its a %rate. Not everyone has to pay income tax. Only those people that wish to generate income within the united states. Don't work don't pay. Work a little pay a little. Work a lot, pay a lot.

I think our government would be a bit more cautious with their sloppy spending if they were required to balance the budget. It seems we all have to. Must be nice to pay for stuff with money you dont have. When is the last time the government went without something because they couldn't afford it. Bush wants to go to Mars. Well I want to go to Egypt. Think I could use an IOU. Sure you can say use a credit card and charge it, but cmon 477 BILLION credit line is pretty good.
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jts924s
I've been staying away, but this is too juicy to skip.

Tax: A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups or businesses within the domain of that government......
The problem isn't just overtaxing gas. The problem is the lack of free market. What's the reason for those restrictions, honestly? I say open up ANWR and flood the market with cheap gas.

Even if someday a couple hundred/thousand/million years from now, if we do start running low on fossil fuels, we will find a solution. Gas engines have been around for what, 120 years? In that relatively short amount of time, they've gotten more powerful and more efficient. The thing is, we're not going to run out. it's a farse! Every time these wackos start talking about running out of resources, they're lying. The fact is we find more efficient ways to get the fuel, we find more of it, and we refine it better.

Read this report by the Energy Information Administration:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/kyoto/electricity.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/kyoto/fossil.html
Quote:
During the approximately 100-year history of the electricity supply industry, the key fuels used to meet the ever-increasing demand for electricity have changed as new generating technologies have emerged and fuel prices varied...
Holy crap, you mean we can adapt with technology? Tree huggers don't think so.

Quote:
In this analysis, electricity producers are assumed to have 15 new generating technologies to choose from when new resources are needed, or when it is no longer economical to continue operating existing plants...
edit: whoops, misspelled ANWR
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Last edited by bryanthompson; 02-17-2004 at 03:57 PM..
Old 02-17-2004, 03:53 PM
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High taxes: You get the government you don't vote for.

The "contract" for allowing the states and the feds to directly tax gasoline was to use this income for building, improving and maintaining roads. The growing diversion of these specific taxes is causing a growing loss of mobility.

Mobility is one of the key factors for constant economic growth. 95% or better of everything we buy is transported by truck. 97% of us get to work in our private automobiles. Restricting this by diverting over 20% of these taxes causes the congestion we find ourselves stuck in. Stop and go congestion causes high emission levels.

I don't mind paying 'some' taxes. Having them diverted from their assigned task through unaccountable political manipulation pisses me off.
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Old 02-17-2004, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bryanthompson
The price of gas isn't a function of supply and demand at all. If it was, we'd be buying $0.99/gallon gas.
not true, as OPEC's reduced crude oil production over the last two months is the largest reason for the 17c per gallon (avg) increase. however! on the demand side you are correct. even a drastic drop in the price of gasoline will not increse the demand for it, but simply increase the quantity demanded
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Old 02-17-2004, 06:44 PM
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everytime i go back to scotland on vacation, i'm reminded of why i moved to north america. gas is approx 4 pounds 30 pence a gallon, which works out at around $11 dollars canadian, or $6.5 dollars us. i know if i had my olds 98 regency {"84" winter beater} over there, i would be putting a rope around my neck, and jumping off a tall building !!
i came to windsor in 1996, and the first time i was over in detroit, i saw gas at 90 cents, and thought that was for a litre !! i almost wept, when my friend told me that was for a GALLON !!!!
tell you how silly gas prices can get over there. i once had to commute to work, about 25 miles each way, 6 days a week. my monthly cost for gas, was more than my mortgage was!! i was driving a rover vitesse, 3.5 litre v8 which is the gm smallblock i believe.
really crazy!
bob.
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Old 02-17-2004, 09:32 PM
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IIRC:

Price is stable when supply equals demand. Price goes up when demand exceeds supply and vice-versa. Demand currently exceeds supply. Inventories are at historical lows. This is why gas costs more now than a few years back. Since OPEC currently gets along, this may continue for some time.

Taxation has been stable for some time, and is based on volume dispensed, not price. So when you curse the current price of gas, you should shake your fist at demand, the true Satan in all this.
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Last edited by jts924s; 02-18-2004 at 10:25 AM..
Old 02-18-2004, 10:18 AM
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While we are on taxes, here is a good one - - - I don't have a mortgage because my house is paid off. Yet it I still have to pay almost $150 a month to live in it! This is just the amount that taxes cost on the house (rated on a monthly basis). And I live in a "relatively" low tax area!
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Old 02-18-2004, 10:29 AM
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I would rather pay the gas tax than ride on IL tollways any day. I swear the only reason the tollways are open is to provied low wage jobs for city folks.
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Old 02-18-2004, 10:39 AM
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I live in Finland, (which is in north Europe)
and even tough 911 Turbo costs here 213 000 € and one litre of fuel costs about 1.1€ I still think this is a good system…
This way we can afford good and equal health care, free universities and take care of old/poor/disabled people.
And it also helps the nature… the problem is not that we are running out of oil. It is the CO2.
But I guess that most of you don’t care / know anything about that…
Old 02-18-2004, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matti
I live in Finland, (which is in north Europe)
and even tough 911 Turbo costs here 213 000 € and one litre of fuel costs about 1.1€ I still think this is a good system…
This way we can afford good and equal health care, free universities and take care of old/poor/disabled people.
And it also helps the nature… the problem is not that we are running out of oil. It is the CO2.
But I guess that most of you don’t care / know anything about that…
Huh?

CO2 is not a problem. The problem is the people who think it is. The slight increase in CO2 that civilization has imparted is what's keeping us out of the next ice age. IF it's doing anything at all.

In earth's prehistoric past CO2 levels were far higher than they are today. For a lot longer than a hundred years. Earth is still here as far as I can tell.

The only reason that I can fathom for the big CO2 hubbub is to increase taxes. But then you like taxes.

As you reside in a northern latitude any ice age would cover Finland first.

Oh My!

Better start burning everything to keep those CO2 levels up!
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by profssr2017
While we are on taxes, here is a good one - - - I don't have a mortgage because my house is paid off. Yet it I still have to pay almost $150 a month to live in it! This is just the amount that taxes cost on the house (rated on a monthly basis). And I live in a "relatively" low tax area!
Less than $2,000 a year. Not bad. Have they reassessed you for the new garage?

While on this subject; I keep seeing the late night adds where you scour the country for tax sales. Get a house for less than $600! Think it's time to change these tax lien and sale laws.

Here is what I propose: Any property that is taken for back taxes can not be sold for the taxes alone. The property has to be sold for at least 80% of current market prices. So that $600 house that was resold for $65,000 has to sold for no less than $52,000.
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:14 PM
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