Engine conversion

[sb944]

Hi there,

I realise this topic has been done 100 times over. I just want to post something, but already know there are people out there who are dead against a conversion from a 944 na to a non Porsche engine.

First of all, I am very happy with the car in about 3 or so months of owning it. I have done 2 large getaways and have loved the feel of the car around corners and on the open road. The only thing I don't like is the low end acceleration. It can't go up hills fast or anywhere that fast unless you absolutely floor the accelerator and use the clutch and accelerator perfectly. Overall the car is still good but annoyingly bad.

Much the same could be said about the Mazda Mx-5 (Miata in America) which retails at $Au ~40,000. The problem here again is the low end speed of the Mx-5 is bad (maybe worse than the 944). However a company here has produced at least 50 heavily modified Mx-5's putting a Lexus V8 engine and modding up the body, suspension and brakes leaving you with a 430 HP, 1160 kg supercharged car probably capable of 0-100 km/h in low 4 seconds. This retails new for $89,000 or $69,000 for the 300 HP starters packages (probably capable of 5 seconds 0-100).

The above package represents good value for money to me, considering other cars that go that fast ask you for double the money.

It got me thinking the 944 (looks and handles better than the Mx-5 for me) could easily be upgraded with an equivilent engine and all the other upgrade mods, and would probably still leave you a lot less broke, while putting you under the 5 second 0-100. People complain that it's just not worth it, and to get a 951, but I think this type of package will get you under 5 seconds without needing to replace every other part on your 951 and you don't need the worry of maintaining a turbo etc.

I would be more willing to get my 944 to sub 5 seconds than buy that Mx-5 knockoff, but like I said, it's a pretty mean package for the price you pay.

Here is a link to their web page. If anyone has any points they wish to make I'd be glad to hear them.

BTW a chevy upgrade does nothing for me a chevy don't do as much trade here in Australia, so I would like to know if any of the Australian V8's are capable of fitting into a Porsche without upsetting absolutely everything.

Cheers,

Sam.

------------------
Porsche 944 na 85.1

[Rollins]

What kind of cars do you have there? lol sorry for a stupid question but I've never been there before. Pretty much you could put any V8 in there, it's just a matter of how. The chevy hsa kits available. You prolly won't find kits for anything else.

[ribs]

GM actually makes cool cars for the austrailian market...and the middle east cars are even cooler...check out the caprice and the lumina. If only they made cars like that in the US, they might still be considered by people who buy japanese and european cars.

Check out renegade hybrids for a company that sells kits to swap a small block chevy motor into various porsches, including 944's.

------------------
ribs, 86' 951
My gallery

[lordgrommit]

How about a nice Jag V12? or you could do the Lexi swap into a 944 as the poster in my garage says nothing here money can't fix

Matt

[Kierf - ¿§?]

Well...if you have enough money, either a 2JZ-GTE (Supra TT), RB26DETT (Skyline GT-R), VG30DETT (300ZX TT), SR20DET (Silvia) would work well. The 2JZ-GTE and RB26DETT have the capability to easily produce 400 horsepower to the wheels. There are handfuls of each that have over 1000 horsepower to the wheels. Plus the transmissions on each are bullet proof. The 2JZ-GTE can be mated with an auto or a 6-speed manual, both provide almost the exact same acceleration times. I believe the RB26DETT only came with a manual transmission...

-Kierf.
--'79 Prelude.
--preludeparts.com

[EGSMachine]

i want to do exactly what you want. i have been looking for the engines and found that the Lexus (toyota)

http://www.rebuiltengines.com/free.html


motors are the way to go. i have been wanting something besides the chevy motor as well.

Why not the 5.0l 928? cuz they are hard to find, for the price of a toyota. then, if its used, you have to rebuild it. i'd rather buy a rebuilt. Plus, Toyota has a reputation for solid motors. The supra and skyline motors are great, but they are Inline 6's and i don't think that there is enough room in the 944 for it, at least not without modifying the torque tube length. The 300zxTT is hard to comeby, but a nice alternative. I want an NA motor though. maybe a super charger later. i would like to keep the rear transaxle to help with the weight, plus there is question of stuffing another engines standard tranny in, without modifying the interior sheetmetal. Also there are 968 and 951 trannies that can handle the power. i think it would be easier to make a motor fit without its original tranny; this may sound without enough insite or inexperienced, but you could use the clutch disk from the 944/951 on the flywheel of the new motor, aleviating the need to do major cutom machine work to connect the input shaft to the tranny.

i guess the next difficult task, is the clutch housing, which may be ok if you use the new engines from its original tranny. all one has to do then is mate the torque tube to that housing.

i think that the way Porsche designed the motor mounts, lends itself heavilly to the ease of fabricating new ones for the new motor. i think the whole install can be done with relativly little money and about a week with all the materials handy.

the final issue is the EFI and Ignition. obviously, the 84 DME is not going to cut it. there are so many systems out there. i think i am going with the SDS (Simple Digital Systems, www.SDSEFI.com for its cost and ease of installation and parts. The SDS can even control the VVTL-i on the Lexus motor. Now i just need about 6k, and i have a monster.



[This message has been edited by EGSMachine (edited 10-15-2001).]

[TheStig]

no offense to those of you doing hybrid 944s with non-Porsche engines but its sacreligious IMHO. Why not drop a 928S4 motor in??? I know of a guy that used to live in San Diego that had a 1979 924 with a 928 motor from 1986. That car was unstopable and it even beat 928s!!!!



------------------
Porsche: Proof Of Rich Spoiled Children Having Everything (acroynm)

[EGSMachine]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EuroSpec944:
[B]no offense to those of you doing hybrid 944s with non-Porsche engines but its sacreligious IMHO. Why not drop a 928S4 motor in??? I know of a guy that used to live in San Diego that had a 1979 924 with a 928 motor from 1986. That car was unstopable and it even beat 928s!!!!
[QUOTE]


In a way, i agree. but where can i get a 928s4 motor, rebuilt, for $3k? i mean really, thats why i can't do it. i really wish i could. i must have made 20 long distance phone calls, surfed the net for hours, and still nothing; at least not what i want. if i find one, it will be fate, not diligence that leads me to it. Please, let me know if you have any leads.

------------------
84-9445m
Porsche, "Overtly Masculine Feel".

93-325is 5m;
driven daily.

[This message has been edited by EGSMachine (edited 10-15-2001).]

[Rollins]

The engine isn't what makes the porsche complete. It's just a part of the overall package. Adding an engine from another car isn't that bad. Are there any reliable turbo charged V6's out there? I would think one of those would work well in an NA.

[JH924S]

Hey what part of Australia are you from? and you definatly have american v8's your commadores use corvette engines modded by commodore(pretty sick car). I had a blast this summer checking out your very different collection of cars. those ute's look justlike or elcamino's

[JH924S]

modded by Holden sorry

[JH924S]

modded by Holden sorry.

[sb944]

As I'm writing this I just come to knowledge Mazda are releasing a 200 HP Mx-5. They obviously know people want more from that car and their potential customers are turning to other sources to get V8 conversions. At only 1060 kg that car should be quite nippy and give the S2 owners out there a bit of hassle.

On the 944 conversion, I'm happy to see there are people out there you think positively about such an interesting project.

I'd like to say I'm all for keeping everything Porsche. I have had no problems with my engine yet (only 3 months) but I realise it's probably only a matter of time, whereas I have a second car (Toyota) which I treat like crap that will never go wrong, period. The 928 S4 is a great sounding option but after dropping the big 5L engine in you still only have 315 HP. After spending many hours and thousands of dollars you don't get enough of a kick to make it worthwhile in my opinion. I would rather just buy the whole 928 than do that.

I'm from Sydney Australia, and the V8 Holden Commodore does have a Chev engine so that would still be an option I suppose. The HSV Commodores are actually a very nice car, only every man and his dog owns one here and every model looks almost identical. Just imagine driving down the street and every second car is a 944, some na, some Turbo and some S2. At the end of the day you just wouldn't care whether the 944 you just saw was turbo or not. That's the way I feel about the more powerful Holdens in Australia.

Anyway I'm chilling on the idea at the moment, but I might keep checking out information and asking people. I would love to have a test drive of a car already converted. I'm also going to take a test drive of the 400 HP Mx-5 with the Lexus engine if I get the chance.

Good luck to everyone,
Sam.

------------------
Porsche 944 na 85.1

[mike944]

If there's a kit available for the conversion you want to do, go for it. If you would be doing the entire thing from scratch, do you really have any idea what is involved in a swap like this??? I have never done an engine swap (different brand) in a car before, but i have built open-wheeled race cars from scratch before, so I have a good idea of all the little details that will get overlooked until the last minute. I hope you have access to a full fabrication / machine shop.

Just a few items to consider:
will the drivetrain handle that much torque without self-destructing?
you'll have to adapt the flywheel, clutch, pilot bushing, clutch actuating mechanism, starter motor, AC and alternator, and make an adapter plate to bolt up the different patterns. stock motor mounts probably can't handle the extra weight. How is the extra weight going to affect the 944's precision handling. Is the radiator adequate for a bigger engine? how about the cooling fans? Engine control computer? wiring harness? Exhuast system? fuel and coolant plumbing?

Well, that's all i could think of off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong, i'd love to see you do it. But i just wanted to make sure you're aware of the extreme complexity of a project like this. Many times I've gotten myself into projects that never get completed because they became WAY more complicated and WAY more expensive than I ever thought they would be. But i guess the only way to find out is to try it.

Good luck
Mike

[perfectchoicemotorsports]

You have to have Range Rovers their? The all aluminum 315 Cubic inch or 4.2 ltr motor that is in them are Buick design. So assuming that the renagaid hybrids kit will work with GM that would be a small light V8 with plenty of power to get it to
NA 225 hp 300 if forced induction is added. It would also not add that much to the weight of the car or balance of it.

Kevin
PCM Injection

[diannone]

renegades kit covers most everything, already made.

[ae1969]

Frankly if you are going to use an american engine in a 944.

If all thing being equal....and you could pick anything....

I would find an engine out of a Buick Grand National 3.8 liter V6 turbo..... the last year of the Grand national in 87'.... the GNX special T... produced 275 HP at 4400 RPM and 360 lbft torque at 3000 rpm!!!! STOCK and then you could modify that bloody thing.......

Frankly if they would of put that engine in the vette .... in 87 the 944 turbo would probably would have been blown away....... I can't believe buick shelved that powerplant.... it was a wonderfull piece of engineering for its time.....to me the GN buick is a serious dark horse.... not too many people know of the car, and frankly it looks like a 2 door family car....... and really was an incredible piece of equipment....(well the engine/powertrain anyways)

You are looking at a car that almost weighs 4000 lbs.... going 0-60 at ~4.6 seconds... quarter mile... ~13.4 at 103 mph with an automatic transmission!!!!!!! numbers that the 911 turbo of that time could barely match.......

Now that engine in a 944 weighing about 1000 lb less.......what a dream.

American manufacturers have had some wonderfull glimpses of brilliance in automotive engineering.... I just wish they could put all these pieces together and really produce a car that could kick some A-SS!!!!!

[diannone]

coincidently, there is a disscussion about 6 cyl vs 8 cyl and the smoothness of 8 vs 6 pulses per rpm, on the egroups porschev page right now

[TheStig]

EGS there is a wrecking yard over here that sells 32 valve 928 motors here. Have you also checked out parts heaven? it doesnt have to be an S4 motor ya know. Seeing that it would be more difficult to convert your fuel system over I would say get an 85-86 928 motor and swap your ECU with it along with the fuel pump



------------------
Porsche: Proof Of Rich Spoiled Children Having Everything (acroynm)

[jetmax]

Ok Sam,
First of all you are a rock.
Second, How much are you willing to spend?
Third, if all you want is 5 second 0-60 then why not get a 944 TurboS and modify it a bit. Or if you are so Crazy about an engine swap why don't you look at putting a 968 Turbo engine in your 944.