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-   Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/)
-   -   more info on K&N FILTERS (bad news) (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/159800-more-info-k-n-filters-bad-news.html)

ronin 04-27-2004 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabyre
Hey ass captain, who had to walk you through virus removal this weekend? :)
damn, I'm laughing so hard right now, I can barely type!!!

btw: that was then, this is now!! :p

Sabyre 04-27-2004 02:46 PM

http://www.rdrop.com/users/larry/download/Brake_Power_vs_Weight.PDF

This may help.

Sabyre 04-27-2004 02:47 PM

Quote:

btw: that was then, this is now!!
So are the gloves off?

Tishabet 04-27-2004 02:49 PM

Actually, FYI, Road and Track has published numbers for braking on many of the 944/951 series.

'86 951
3000 lbs
0-60 in 6.0s
0-100 in 15.3s
60-0 in 143 feet
80-0 in 255 feet

'89 944
2965 lbs
0-60 in 7.5s
0-100 in 21.4s
60-0 in 136 feet
80-0 in 236 feet

ronin 04-27-2004 02:50 PM

as Seal would say, BRING IT ON! :D

fast924S 04-27-2004 02:52 PM

Its not the force that is needed to stop the car its the ability to transfer the energy of moving into heat without smoking the pads and rotors

serge944 04-27-2004 03:30 PM

One thing that important to mention...even though you have more hp, doesnt mean youre going to be going at a higher velocity... Unless you just dont think.

Funny how some feel that its obligatory to use all of your hp...regardless of laws or common sense.

lousailor 04-27-2004 03:33 PM

mmmmm, Foot down...Go Fast! Foot up...Go Slow!

Me like Fast!

88_944 04-27-2004 04:20 PM

Quote:

I work on 944s only and when I tare down a 944 engine that has had a K&N filter the cyclenders have a LOT of scores from dirt that got through the filter.

WTF? I'm putting my stock box back!

Moneyguy1 04-27-2004 08:41 PM

So the '89 944NA stops shorter than the '86 turbo? Sounds like heresy to me. (not to mention tossing the "bigger brakes is better" argument a curve!!) And, in most automotive tests, the braking test is from 60 to 0, not after 1/8 mile runs. Of course, they could have changed the standard...And, it STILL takes the same amount of "energy dissipation" to yank a 3,000 car to 0 regardless of the engine capacity. Right?

<G>

P.S. Unclebilly: What kinds of performance cars you talking about? From the 60s? Hell, even the early Porsche models had DRUM BRAKES.

This has been an interesting thread. I am still not convinced that adding 50 to 100 hp requires upgrading what are already by anyone's standard excellent brakes (considering the age of the design)

88_944 04-27-2004 10:20 PM

Wait, When I was looking at the stock air box tube that goes in the fender, I notice that 70%+ more dust dirt will get in the air box from the tires kicking it up. Hell no, I'm keeping my cone filter on! I would get less dirt getting on the cone filter with this set up. You just have to oil cone filter right. I'm using an after market cone filter but I'm buying an K&N filter soon. :D

URIN 2ND 04-28-2004 08:02 AM

Quote:

I work on 944s only and when I tare down a 944 engine that has had a K&N filter the cyclenders have a LOT of scores from dirt that got through the filter.
Sorry...but I don't take engine build advice from someone who cannot spell "tear down" or "cylinder."

And FYI, none of my K&N equipped cars have had any engine damage or shortened life spans.

As for the braking...HP has absolutely nothing to do with it. Unless you're planning on holding the brake while you accelerate at the same time.

It's speed + weight. Two cars weigh 3000 lbs. One makes 150hp, the other makes 600hp, and both are traveling at 80mph. Neither would require "bigger brakes" than the other.

Driving style and conditions are what determine what you should do to your brakes. A 600hp garage queen/weekend car show cruiser, or even a daily driver, would probably ask LESS of it's brake system than a 150hp car that sees DE's every month. In that case, the 150hp car would need better brakes.

Build it for how it will be driven.

Sabyre 04-28-2004 08:29 AM

Thanks Urin! Finally.

tobster1911 04-28-2004 08:45 AM

*sigh*

RFBAPB (reach for big ass physics book)

F = Force
m = Mass
a = Acceleration
v = constant Velocity
x = distance
t = time (s)
g = gravity
W = weight

From the top…
W = mg.
F = ma

a = delta v/t
v = x/t

F = m*(delta v/t)
F = m*(x2/t2 – x1/t1)/t
this is also written as a derivative in calculus as follows…
F = m * (d^2x/dt)


F = (W/g) * (d^2x/dt)
Solve for F to find the force required to stop a vehicle in the same amount of time and distance that it takes to get to achieve that state. This force must be opposite in sign to = deceleration.

The result... The force required to stop a 944 must be equal to the force that achieved the forward momentom for it to stop in the same exact time and distance. It took some F to get to that point; now you have to counter this F... This is also dependent on gravity... Porsches stop slower on the moon so don't tailgate.

lousailor 04-28-2004 09:53 AM

HA! LOL

An argument that only an engineer can love.

URIN 2ND 04-28-2004 10:59 AM

No problem. After all, it ain't rocket sceince.

Unless you're asking Tobster, in which case, it IS rocket science. :D

scottmandue 04-28-2004 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by URIN 2ND
Sorry...but I don't take engine build advice from someone who cannot spell "tear down" or "cylinder."


Exactly what I was thinking.


"One Toyota Atlantic teem"
"car was lossing power"
"down streem of the air filter"
"a oiled fome filter"
"You mite gain a littel more power"
"If you dont beleve me "

ronin 04-28-2004 12:57 PM

dass so rood, dood! you nevur tink about dose less fortyunate den u?

MrPants 04-28-2004 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tobster1911
*sigh*

RFBAPB (reach for big ass physics book)

F = Force
m = Mass
a = Acceleration
v = constant Velocity
x = distance
t = time (s)
g = gravity
W = weight

From the top?
W = mg.
F = ma

a = delta v/t
v = x/t

F = m*(delta v/t)
F = m*(x2/t2 ?x1/t1)/t
this is also written as a derivative in calculus as follows?
F = m * (d^2x/dt)


F = (W/g) * (d^2x/dt)
Solve for F to find the force required to stop a vehicle in the same amount of time and distance that it takes to get to achieve that state. This force must be opposite in sign to = deceleration.

The result... The force required to stop a 944 must be equal to the force that achieved the forward momentom for it to stop in the same exact time and distance. It took some F to get to that point; now you have to counter this F... This is also dependent on gravity... Porsches stop slower on the moon so don't tailgate.

Well since we're getting all fancy, it takes less force to stop it. lets not forget that the drag force and friction on rotating parts are all working against possitive acceleration.

Ferrara_racing 04-29-2004 07:25 PM

Don't feel bad Early, lots of guy's in here with huge ego's. Truth is everyone thinks their car is the most pristine surviving example, runs the best and is worth the most money, even I'm guilty of that. I have cleaned many an air filter with compressed air including paper guys, they never suffered for the treatment. I am not a wrench, but my dad was and built racing engines too, he was the best...except he cleaned air filters with (oh my god) AIR. I'll be sure to tell him he's an ******* next time I see him.

PS I've seen people in here arguing about where Zymol is made, who's wax is the best...N Word Pleazzzzzz


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