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-   -   more info on K&N FILTERS (bad news) (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/159800-more-info-k-n-filters-bad-news.html)

..P 04-23-2004 12:42 PM

more info on K&N FILTERS (bad news)
 
Since I still see people telling other people on this forum that the K&N system produces more power and won't hurt your engine, I suggest everyone read this, and then don't waste your money or your machine.

regards, P





http://forums1.roadfly.org/porsche/forums/924-944-968/4959457-1.html



In the event the active link won't get you there, I have intentionally cut the link in two below, just so everyone can see it, just paste the two halves together in your address bar and then read the thread

http://forums1.roadfly.org/pors

che/forums/924-944-968/4959457-1.html

serge944 04-23-2004 12:46 PM

Link doesnt work; can you copy paste the article?

Don 944 LA 04-23-2004 01:06 PM

**** Cut & Pasted article from other site ****

http://forums1.roadfly.org/porsche/forums/924-944-968/4959457-1.html

Author: Mike F on 2004-04-12 at 19:38:22
Subject: Re: NO K&N NEVER on a 944 NEVER (635 views)

Message: I worked for race teams for years. One Toyota Atlantic teem I worked on the driver thought the car was lossing power from the start of a race to the end. So we did leak down checks when we got new engines in. 3% leak down- New. At the end of a race we checked it again and we got 29% leak down. So we sent the head to get the valves done and checked the leak down when the head returned. 4%- Leak down. At the end of the next race 31%- leak down. So we put three dabs of grease down streem of the air filter. "K&N" The next engine came in with 3%-leak down new. And at the end of the race 32%- leak down and the dabs of greas were full of grit. So we changed the filter to a oiled fome filter. 3%- leak down new and at the end of the next race? 18%-leak down. Better still not good. So we made a new air box and used a Mustang GT stock air filter. 3%-leak down new at the end of the next race? 1%- leak down yes I said "1%". The rings bed in and the engine seals up. We went from changing a engine at 300 miles with 29 to 34% leak down to. Changing the engine at 800 miles with 7% leak down.

So the bottom line is. You mite gain a littel more power (1 to 2hp) but it will not last long and befor you know it you will have a LOT less.
I work on 944s only and when I tare down a 944 engine that has had a K&N filter the cyclenders have a LOT of scores from dirt that got through the filter.
If you dont beleve me do the grease test your self. Take out the filter and put a dab of grease in the air box. Then put your K&N filter in and dive the car for a few weeks and pull the filter out and check the dab of grease.

Good Luck Mike F

Don 944 LA 04-23-2004 01:08 PM

I used to use the stock style K&N in my truck and it worked great for offroading. If I didn't I would have to change my filter every weekend.

MrPants 04-23-2004 01:10 PM

I believe that K&N isnt better than stock, but i have a hard time believing that it will do serious damage to a daily driven car. people make it seem like using a K&N is the same as driving without an oil pump or something.

Bill Verburg 04-23-2004 04:26 PM

More bad news for the K&N fans

Read This

ae1969 04-23-2004 04:33 PM

Learned lots from the first article............

so with my new found knowledge I am pretty sure I have my stock mustang GT airbox.... I know I could make it work on the TUrbo with a little fabrication......

early_944 04-23-2004 04:47 PM

i have a k&n filter on my 944. k&n have to be cleaned from time to time. I suppose orinary compressed air will do the trick or soap and water. BUT with the soap and water cleaning method i suggest letting it dry before using becuase mud may develop and then dry decreasing air flow.

but a properly cleaned air filter should be fine. it all comes down to the smallest pore in the filter. anything particle smaller than than the smallest hole will of course pass through. maybe k&n should think about a magnetic, or better described as static electricity, type of filter to allow for larger pores and still collect tiny dirt particles

rammstein 04-23-2004 07:01 PM

Note that your K&N instructions (if you ever bothered to read them) explicitly state:

DO NOT use compressed air.

Also note that K&N explicitly states not to use soap, as the proper cleaner is a non-detergent degreaser.

You are peddling nonsense sonny. Read your directions before you come on here giving people bogus and detrimental advice.

For those who wish to know the proper way to do things, here: http://www.knfilters.com/clningins.htm

rammstein 04-23-2004 07:19 PM

But thanks Mr. Wizard! Your bit on magnetic (or better described as static electricity HAHAHAA) filtering was so funny I peed my pants.

rammstein 04-23-2004 07:22 PM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1077176627.jpg

..P 04-23-2004 07:57 PM

with so much information being posted by people who know what they're talking about, how come there are so many kids out there still buying this crap. Are they such suckers to the marketing information or what?

(hey, funny photoshop by the way)

P

early_944 04-23-2004 08:11 PM

listen to me ram it; i work on many more vehicles than just a porsche. i do quite a bit of work on other cars as well as large equipment. so you have to tell me that john deere that sells a soap to clean air filters has completely lied to me. ??? i never said to use high air compression, that would be non sense, you'd destroy the filter. think my friend, for yourself.

if you take your time on a low pressure air line, you will be fine. don't go running a full 90psi through the damn filter.

i have cleaned many air filters with compressed air and i work in dry dirt all day long when summer comes around. I have no problems with the compressed air method.

However, being that i didn't place the filter on the car nor have i ever owned a k&n i wasn't aware of the directions. However if it says not to use a detergent soap, then don't.

as far as my "magnetic - static electricity" statement goes, it seems you don't know what english grammar rules you are making fun of. i was simply going from a general idea to a more specific, its a writing technique, look it up. So rip on me all you want. There are multiple froms to acheive magnetism. And i think its a damn good idea. so go hate on someone else ram me

serge944 04-23-2004 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rammstein
But thanks Mr. Wizard! Your bit on magnetic (or better described as static electricity HAHAHAA) filtering was so funny I peed my pants.
Save these comments for supercars.net.

Please....

fast924S 04-23-2004 08:51 PM

I have run, K@N in just about every car/truck I have owned, Including my Porsche, I have rebuilt the motor in the Porsche and I never noticed any large amounts of wear, I also did a head gasket on my 1987 VW jetta in that I also didnt notice any lager then normal amounts of wear. As with anyting if you properly install and take car of the filter it will work fine, Its just another tall tail, or just a bunch of the OLD KEEP IT STOCK GUYS bull ****.

ronin 04-23-2004 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by early_944
listen to me ram it; i work on many more vehicles than just a porsche. i do quite a bit of work on other cars as well as large equipment. so you have to tell me that john deere that sells a soap to clean air filters has completely lied to me. ??? i never said to use high air compression, that would be non sense, you'd destroy the filter. think my friend, for yourself.

if you take your time on a low pressure air line, you will be fine. don't go running a full 90psi through the damn filter.

i have cleaned many air filters with compressed air and i work in dry dirt all day long when summer comes around. I have no problems with the compressed air method.

However, being that i didn't place the filter on the car nor have i ever owned a k&n i wasn't aware of the directions. However if it says not to use a detergent soap, then don't.

as far as my "magnetic - static electricity" statement goes, it seems you don't know what english grammar rules you are making fun of. i was simply going from a general idea to a more specific, its a writing technique, look it up. So rip on me all you want. There are multiple froms to acheive magnetism. And i think its a damn good idea. so go hate on someone else ram me

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/kao5.gif

unclebilly 04-23-2004 09:47 PM

I've run K&N's on several of my vehicles, past and present, not my Porsche.

K&N's do let some dust through, that's a fact. Are the dust particles big enough to cause any damage? I don't know.

I run K&N's on my Honda Transalp because a one shot $35 filter is cheaper than $25 for a new one every spring. The same deal with the Dodge Cummins Diesel 4X4 I used as a daily driver and won tractor pull competitions with, the $70 K&N filter was cheaper than 3 stock filters. My 4runner is a similar deal. I was also hoping for big increases in fuel mileage that I never got. In my little Chevy 1/2 ton, I'd never run a K&N - $40 for the K&N vs. $2.75 for a stock filter would take alot of filters to pay it off.

Everytime I've installed a K&N, I've seen a big performance increse, I think this is more to do with the fact that I'm replacing a dirty filter element with a new one than the improved breathing of the K&N.

What :P posted about the grease trick is something everyone with a K&N should try - you'll be surprised. I'm not sure if the dust particles are big enough to cause damage or not.

When I've seen dust on the clean side of my K&N's, I've chalked it up to the dust particles passing through the filter and picking up oil residue and plating out in the air horn because of the low pressure on the engine side of the element and never really worried about it much.

early_944 04-23-2004 09:53 PM

Hey, i know i have to prove my worth and everything. And i admit i am young in age, 20, but still rammestein is being rather unreasonable in his response. I admit there is much for me to learn about Porsches as well as every other car. However i feel that some of what i know is resepectable since every car i have worked on has operated successfully. I've never had professional training or anything, but still have enough tenacity to attack any problem i find. But I am willing to ask advice or be corrected if done in a proper manner. Like much that goes on here is simply a guidance tool, a direction to head, i simply offer what i know. I try to read through all the posts and learn from what other people know. Anyone that knows anything knows that there is much to learn. I would never supply an answer to a question if i wouldn't take my own advice.

There are many people here that know much... much more than i know. I may not rank up there with FR Wilk or SoCal, but as i keep reading their posts i learn more and more.

So those who know, keep up the good work. For those that criticize me, let me know where i am wrong so that i don't continue that same mistakes.

ronin 04-23-2004 10:08 PM

you said it yourself, you are new here. therefore you may have been a bit better served lurking a bit to get a feel for what people know and also whether or not your knowledge actually stacks up. but that's o.k. it's all part of the learning experience. just remember, although your knowledge may work for you, it does not mean that it is the norm, as there are many other people out there with lots of knowledge and experience of their own. not to worry, welcome to the board and have fun


FR. last Wednesday?? you mean we've been silent for that long?? must have been a slow week :D

justin 04-24-2004 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FR Wilk
I hear those little throttle cams are bad and can cause cancer. :confused:
Damnit! I was wondering what that lump was...........


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