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-   Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/)
-   -   Voltage @ Injectors? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/161441-voltage-injectors.html)

ae1969 05-08-2004 11:26 AM

Well only one thing we can do at this point.

Strip her down to the main bearings and lets try again.

:)

sneed21 05-12-2004 06:18 AM

Tried that, no change. It won't idle above 700 much less 1200. Sorry I haven't posted in a while, but my garage door broke and I've been having to work on it for the past few days.

SoCal Driver 05-12-2004 06:43 AM

Had a bracket holding the hinge on one side of the single car garage come loose. Had to peal the plywood off of the door to get into the garage to fix the hinge. PITA!

sneed21 05-12-2004 07:11 AM

Yeesh! One of the drums lost tension and spun the torsion spring. I've got to reset the drum and respool the spring. Took me a couple of days to find the correct size steel rods to wind that puppy. The torsion springs are a very potentially dangerous thing to mess with. It's amazing how much my garage door weighs w/out any spring assist.......well, it's not like the Porsche is going anywhere anyway ;) I should have it taken care of tonight so I can start troubleshooting the 944 again.

SoCal Driver 05-12-2004 07:20 AM

Counter weights. Easier to fix and fun to watch go up and down as the door is opened.

FLA944 05-12-2004 02:03 PM

I know I am coming in at the rear of this one, but have an idea. hey you are grabbing at straws so here is one.

Take a hand torch (bernzomatic) unlit. Oh and no smoking or visible sparks. have a 2nd person with you as a safety net in the car to turn off/on

Start the engine and systematically wave the open torch around the intake (gaskets) AFM, Throttle, and vacuum lines and try to notice any difference in the idle. Any idle change will be a vacuum leak.

Or, (safer) pick up a vacuum guage and crank over (remove HV coil wire) and see what the reading is. If I remember at the small lines should be 2-3

I am also thinking up the alley that this was a catastrophic failure as you were pumping just fine up 95 (which exit? my S10 thru a tire one exit south of MLK)(Scary, the McDonalds doors were locked and could only order from window) Have you checked to make sure the rotor and rotor connector piece is still bolted to each other and the cam? The little screw likes to break.I am shying away from electrical at this point as you have spark, have fuel, etc.. I would double check the timing marks though. Bring up to TDC at the flywheel and check then the timing mark on the cam gear. (simple 5 minute check just to be sure didn't jump). Well, you wanted straws so there's a few.

Rick

sneed21 05-13-2004 03:55 AM

Thanks Rick :) I was just south of Jacksonville (the exit right before I-295 if you've got a map). I've checked the set screw on the rotor, it's tight and still there, also, I changed out the rotor and set screw. I've checked the timing and it's good. OT and Cam mark present and lined up. I will have to check for a vac leak. I know I've got vac at all lines, but am not sure a what value (don't have a tester). I will have to check that. Got the garage door fixed last night......but I rolled the spring too many times. My 3 year old could manually open the garage door if she wanted to, there's that much tension. I've got to back the spring off a few revolutions tonight, and then it's back to troubleshooting!

FLA944 05-13-2004 05:12 AM

Know the area well. my office is in RTP in NC and thru there alot. Not a good location to have trouble. Construction still going on?

Go to discount autoparts and get a cheapo. Don't need anything expensive got all mine from harbor freight cheap. Went over to AFJuvat's shop tuesday. Man he gets to work on a lot of cool stuff and help me out alot of course. he is great to get the hard to find parts and even have next day service he even delivers for beer.

Good Luck, keep us posted

Rick

sneed21 05-13-2004 05:52 AM

Yeah, they're still trying to build that mega interchange......it's a mess. They're trying to get it finished by the super bowl, but I don't see that happening. Jacksonville will be the laughing stock next year, but I digress. I'm going to Advanced today to pick up a battery for my friend's Audi, so I'll check for the el cheapo vac tester. If not, theres a Harbor Freight around the corner. I must live in the black hole for 944 enthusiests. Either they're up north, or further south. I can't find anyone around here that actually works on their own car. They take them to Brumos or Eurospec and pay out the butt.....which I might have to do if I can't figure this out. :(

sneed21 05-28-2004 04:41 AM

I was Finally able to get back to testing the white 944. I feel like I've been away too long. Anyway, I've started going back through all the test points listed in the manual. I got to the TPS and didn't get the same reading I got (or thought I got) the first times around. I went from 0 Ohms at closed TB to Infinate or open (1) as soon as the TB opened, that checked out OK, but when I changed from test point 2 to 3 and checked, I went from Infinate or open (1) w/ the TB closed, and no change as the TB opened. It stayed infinate. I checked this both at the DME clip and on the sensor iteself. Hoorah! Whoopie!, I found my problem!!, or so I thought. I jumped over to the black 944 hoping to confirm my findings, but when I tested the TPS on it, it did the SAME THING, same readings........arghhhhhh! When I unplug the TPS from the white 944 and try and start it, there is no change, it will fire, run really rough, and die (flood out?) in 3 seconds. When I unplug the TPS from the black 944, the idle rises about 100 rpm....thats it. I'm still scratching my head.....would no reading from infinate to 0 Ohms cause the DME to keep dumping fuel while trying to start, essentially flooding it out?

[edit]
Oh Poop........my mistake, the TPS is checking out OK. Lousey tester. Sorry. Back to the drawing board.

sneed21 05-28-2004 09:39 AM

The FP runs and keeps running till it dies....I can hear it still buzz for a half a sec after the car shuts off.....I think it's flooding out (plugs are fouled). The laundry list of replaced parts keeps growing:

DME Relay
DME
Fuel Pump
Fuel Filter
Injectors
Fuel Rail
FPR
Damper
Spk Plugs
Spk Plug Wires
Coil
HV Coil Wire
AFM
Temp Switch
Intake Boot
Rotor (w/ set screw)
Cap

Ran through 15 pt ignition chk as described in the shop manual - all tested OK. Checked all Vac Lines, tested good vac, no cracks, properly connected. Its very odd. It will only run for a few seconds like it's on 3 cylinders and then die. I can dry the plugs, or wait 30 minutes, and it will do the same thing over again. It's not supposed to be this difficult......is it? :)

FR: Can you check DME's? I mean, if I sent you my old one, could you check it out for a fee?

sneed21 05-28-2004 10:03 AM

Yes, I've done that and the second 944 ran great with the other's DME....go figure, just grasping at straws now. Yes, I've got 29-31 psi at the rail, but I changed all the parts (pump/filter/reg/damper) anyway. Checked all vac lines, proper HG levels, and all connected correctly. Plugs are fouled after one start.

sneed21 05-28-2004 10:11 AM

No the noid light is not flashing after the engine stalls....only when cranking or trying to run (on 3 cylinders since one connector is pulled connected to the light)

ae1969 05-28-2004 10:17 AM

Well we will assume everything checks out..... although I would triple check it (post your measurements). It helps to just throw the info out....

If we are grasping at straws. Your headgasket is shot.... the plugs are wet and its not fuel its coolant.... she stalls out.

Hows that for them apples. :)

Have you done a compression test?

sneed21 05-28-2004 10:27 AM

Yes, Yes, YES! I have maybe 3 hairs left on my head now...I've been pulling them out for 3 months now. :) I can tell you this: The values for all my tests are Exactely the same as what the manual says to get +/- practically nothing. The headgasket is not shot, it is not coolant and I posted the compression figures in the 170s. I still like your idea of stripping her down to the main bearings and starting over ;) Please excuse my frustration. This board has proven to be and inexhaustable source of information, and armed w/ the shop manual and this board, I believe I could troubleshoot 99.9% of the problems w/ my 944's. I really appreciate the help and suggestions, you guys have been a shot in the arm to keep me going on this thing. I love you guys.....sniff, sniff...

sneed21 05-28-2004 10:29 AM

FR! That's sweet! I'll have to check Harbor Freight for something like that! Right now, all I can do is move the single noid to each injector and chk them one at a time. No, the DME is not chipped.

sneed21 05-28-2004 10:45 AM

I can try that. I have discoed the idle stabilizer valve connection and tried to start, it made no difference, but not in conjunction w/ changing the idle screw. Unless the idle screw suddenly backed out while I was driving, (bogged over 2500 rpm on I-95) then moved back 15 minutes later, (ran fine) then move back out again 3 minutes later (left me stranded), I don't think that's it. But I can check :)

I'm getting out of the office (holiday weekend and all), so I'll be checking tonight and post any changes over the weekend. Thanks again guys for all the help.

SoCal Driver 05-28-2004 03:13 PM

Didn't see the speed or reference sensor on that list.

SoCal Driver 05-28-2004 03:17 PM

Also check pins 8 to 27 and 25 to 26. These are the wires to the speed and reverence sensors.

Pin 13 is the engine temp sender.

sneed21 06-01-2004 06:03 AM

Thanks guys, I will check those pins tonight. FR: I did disconnect the motronic II box and reconnect the wires into the harness like you suggested from the older post. It just didn't correct anything. I let the car sit for a while deciding to get it towed to the local Euro shop, but then got another shot of "gumption" and started checking into it again. Question: I've checked the speed and ref sensors, but decided I would change them out over the weekend. I had a problem removing the speed sensor. It will almost pull completely out, but stops about 1/4" shy of the bracket. It will spin, but not pull out. Am I missing something? I didn't think the sensors were keyed.


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