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AC Cost

How will it cost me to get my 83's AC syestem upgraded/ fixed?
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Old 06-08-2004, 06:13 PM
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Recharged mine with R12 freon last summer at a local place here in CT that can still get the stuff. $180 parts (the freon) $70 labor (took him way too long - trouble finding the lower port, so he filled it carefully from the top - I don't know that much about AC, but I think I'm remembering this correctly). Mind boggling how cold it gets (hurts my hands).
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Old 06-08-2004, 06:33 PM
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Check with your local Firestone store. Evac and recharge should run about $160.
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Old 06-08-2004, 07:14 PM
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What's wrong with it?

If there's no freon in it, the obvious question is - why? The obvious answer is "there's a leak somewhere". If you have a leak, figure on about $800-$1000 to have it properly diagnosed and repaired (could be better, could be worse).

I just went through this: my situation was that the line from the compressor to evaporator was leaking, as was the compressor itself. A rebuilt Nippondenso compressor runs about $300; a Sanden (much better choice) ended up costing about $500. The hoses were about $250 each at the dealer, but I found them both for $100 by looking around. Freon was about $200 and some minor screwing around by the mechanic including a vaccum pull on the system was about $200 more. Total for everything was roughly $1,000. It ran quite well and blew cold air - for a week, when the high pressure hose blew (only one I DIDN'T change). New high pressure hose is $100, ANOTHER vaccum, leak test, and charge-up will be about another $300. Total for GOOD quality working and (hopefully) now bulletproof a/c system is about $1,500.

A/C systems on these cars are expensive as hell - get ready to take it in the shorts.
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Old 06-08-2004, 08:55 PM
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Zim's have the Sanden compressor for $280 plus $106 for the installation kit (to switch to a sanden), and $30 for the drier. You will need about 6 cans of brake cleaner to flush the system out (brake cleaner works really well because it cleans well and after blowing out with compressed air, leaves no residue). Also, you will need to break every connection (which also makes it easy to flush out) and change all the o-rings.
Before you do any of this, buy 1 can of r134, go down to an A/C place and have them put the can in the system and then put the sniffer on it - if there are any leaks, the sniffer will show you exactly where they are.
Zim's also has the hoses at a very reasonable price.
Anyone who says that 134 doesnt cool as effective as r12 doesnt know what they are talking about - if it is done correctly, it works just as good.
One more important thing - on the new compressor, take the plugs out of the back, stand it up on its front and pour in half the required amount of oil (usually 4 ounces) and let it sit like that for atleast an hour - what this does is lets the oil settle down the front and lubricate that front seal before it runs dry. Once the system is sealed, rotate the front compressor essembly about 10 to 15 revolutions to cycle the oil thru the system - that way you dont get a hydraulic lock when you first turn the A/C on. If you have any other questions, just email me.
Brett.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:24 PM
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Send a message via AIM to TheCooler
AC delete kit $165 from paragon ..just to keep your options open.
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:29 PM
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I went the Sanden route last summer as Texas944 describes. Works well.
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Old 06-09-2004, 04:24 AM
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Another thing that's been debated to the point of silliness is the selection of refrigerant - r12 versus r134a. Either will work with the Sanden compressors, they are NOT mix-able and the oil used in the system is typically designed to work only with one type or the other. Check it and don't put the wrong stuff in there.

I went with r12 (and probably will again) just because the system in the car is designed to work with it - the condenser, evaporator, hoses, etc. are sized appropriately to the performance and pressures of r12 - not r134a. Notwithstanding this, many people have used r134a with good results and most claim that it runs plenty cool (vent temps are about 50 F IIRC), although it entails higher pressures and slightly reduced performance over r12. The main advantages are it's cheaper and you can do it yourself should the need arise.

Personal choice - just weigh the pros and cons and decide what's most important to you, then proceed accordingly. Good luck with it.
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Old 06-09-2004, 05:46 AM
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Nicely put Porsche-O-Phile. It's that pressure variance that usually kills old compressors when you switch to 134. Having said that - when I worked at O'Reilly's, I have had customers that didnt know the first thing about A/C's do everything you are not supposed to do (including not evacuating the system and mixing oils) and their systems blow out chunks of ice - now whether or not they lasted was another thing, so who knows.
I like TheCooler's idea - save some weight and only drive it when the sky is cloudy!
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1986 944, Zermatt Silver / Black Leather
1994 Full size Blazer, Midnight Blue
1989 IROC, Arrest-me-Red
1966 Corvette Roadster 427 4spd, Silver / Black

DRIVE THEM LIKE YOU JUST STOLE THEM!
Old 06-09-2004, 06:06 AM
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If i remember correctly from a Tech-Session in our local PCA...

With R134 systems there should be a 15-20 degree difference between ambient air temp and inside air temp.

With R12 there should be a 25-50 degree difference between ambient air temp and inside air temp.

I think i'll go with R12, especially here in Southern California. Plus, if i go with R12 i can recharge my unit instead of having to upgrade for $$$$$$ (ouch). Need new A/C lines and condenser and fittings, though. Mine = taken a crap.
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Old 06-09-2004, 12:19 PM
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This will probably draw some fire, but there are alternative refrigerants that work well. I have used one in my old Mercedes for nearly 8 years and in my Porsche for about 6 years. I have had no problems with them.

One of them might have been a topic of discussion on this list about a month or two ago. You might do a search.
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Old 06-09-2004, 12:35 PM
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You mean the "hydro" stuff? I suppose it's possible, but I didn't want the chance of a big KABOOM!

Then again, I got a big kaboom from my HP hose with good old r12 (well, a little kaboom anyway), so who knows?

Changing a/c hoses is a real hoot - I know!
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Old 06-09-2004, 02:28 PM
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Alternative... ?

Like ice and a swamp cooler alternative? I remember those things on older cars that sit on the window... Looked like a subwoofer. They were full of ice-water and as you drive cool air came in...
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Old 06-09-2004, 02:53 PM
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I tried Freeze12 once in an old 86 suburban i had - I would have been better off with one of those swamp coolers! I reto-fitted the 134 into my IROC and got one of those dial thermometers from the cooking isle at wal-mart - going down the road it will drop to 40 (a few times to 38) - sitting in traffic on a stinking hot Texas day it will rise up to 48. The major help is a new compressor as apposed to a rebuilt one - but again you pay thru the you-know-what for it!
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1986 944, Zermatt Silver / Black Leather
1994 Full size Blazer, Midnight Blue
1989 IROC, Arrest-me-Red
1966 Corvette Roadster 427 4spd, Silver / Black

DRIVE THEM LIKE YOU JUST STOLE THEM!
Old 06-09-2004, 03:15 PM
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The hydrocarbon refrigerants have worked just fine for me. Like I said, 8 years in one and 6 in another.
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Old 06-10-2004, 04:28 AM
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One VERY important thing to keep in mind is the hoses of the R-12 systems are designed to leak slowly over time. The hoses have very small pinholes - these are to keep the system from overpressurizing.

Sounds crazy I know, ut these were the days when R-12 was $0.79 per can and you cracked a can open to chill your beer fast.

Normal R-12 freon consumption on a 944 is up to a pound per year. A good AC shop should charge the system with R-12 oplus a UV dye to indicate leaks. - a minor leak will show itself after a few days driving. A more serious leak will show itself within a few hours. (or seconds)

Shop around on AC service, prices very widely between shops - we all buy our freon from the same sources and pay about the same for it.

My shop charges $74.00 (1 hr) for AC service, not including R-12 which is $55 per pound.

AFJuvat
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Old 06-10-2004, 04:50 AM
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I hope i'm correct, but as far as i know R12 is illegal over here in Europe. I haven't checked, but i heard from a local mech that when i wanted my A/C back to work again i had to do the conversion, because they cannot (and will not) fill up the system with R12.

While your emissions check still only have to comply with the rules that were around at the time the car was made, you MUST switch over to 134.

I hope i'm wrong
Old 06-10-2004, 07:26 AM
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Actually the "pinhole hose" issue is a myth, so I've been told. Supposedly the only ones that incorporated deliberate "pressure relief" are very early 911 ones.

It would be illegal to even sell such hoses now.

Besides, if they had such deliberate leaks, why would they be on the low pressure hoses?
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:43 AM
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arnebret,
R12 is up to $US35 a can - want us to send you some?
Brett.
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1986 944, Zermatt Silver / Black Leather
1994 Full size Blazer, Midnight Blue
1989 IROC, Arrest-me-Red
1966 Corvette Roadster 427 4spd, Silver / Black

DRIVE THEM LIKE YOU JUST STOLE THEM!
Old 06-10-2004, 12:11 PM
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On Tuesday, 8 June, I had my R12 AC serviced on my 1987 924S. Prior service at same shop 24 Oct. 1999. Dye installed with R12. Tech called and said system completely empty. Tech installed small amount of R12 and could not find any leaks. Evacuated and held vacuum. Refilled with R12 and dye. Cost was $50 per pound x 2 for R12 with a total cost incl. tax $213.00.

Porsche may not have the "pin" type hose but don't the hoses required for R134a require the "Barrier" hoses that also have a pin function?

John_AZ

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1988 924S ----52k actual miles
Old 06-10-2004, 12:16 PM
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