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Ah the smell of scorched brake pads...

I finally got a chance to take the car to its limits and see what she does tonight...an Integra GSR worked (intake header exhaust, pistons cams etc) challenged me to a little run that lasted prolly a good 5-8 miles or so at speeds in excess of 100 mph. No one on the road (yeah I know someone is gonna try to be smart and tell me I was a dumass) cept me and him. He had me in the turns, and I would catch up to him on the straights.

Apparently the stock 944 suspension is quite soft, and compared to his lowered car, he would put himself far out in front of me in the turns, at speeds I cant think of taking. Everytime I would try to get close to him, the front end would start to push (dam lousy oversize tires) and the back end would get really light (I put half a tank of gas in this morning) and I was prolly achieving neutral balance at one point or another. I seemed to have reached the driving limit of this car, and given its setup, its not very hard to overpower the suspension..

The car seems to lean worse than an '82 caddy. Priorities have shifted a little..meaning suspension is getting done in the car before anything else. Weltmeister front springs, and bilstein struts all around, and lower the rear trailing arms. Unless anybody else has a better idea?

I cooked the brakes pretty well too..you could smell burnt pads from inside the car when i had the windows down. Time for some Axxis pads and some cross drilled rotors...

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Old 09-29-2004, 09:47 PM
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Brakes definitely!

The thing about suspensions is, if you have it too stiff, it won't lean into the bend. It's actually a good thing that the car gives a bit into the bend, you can push the car a long way with the lean if you know what you're doing and get a gradual transition into losing grip, this means you can have lots of fun on the ragged edge - the 50/50 weight distribution facilitates this.
Many cars are stiffened up and lowered reducing the travel on the suspension and while the car will remain tight and well behaved to a point it will SNAP! and bite you hard. The softer 944 setup gives you ample warning with a mild understeer to start with gradually changing to mild and then heavy oversteer as you push it further. - You know exactly where you are!
THIS is exactly what drivers mean when they say "there are those who don't like porsches - but they've never driven one". Which I believe is on someone's signature around here...
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Old 09-30-2004, 02:40 AM
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yeah..i would at least like to do something....because it leans so much im afraid if I push it too far and it brings the back end out, at the speeds i was going, all its going to do is bite into the pavement and upside down i go . I guess its kind of hard to race a front wheel drive car, cuse all they do is understeer...you can throw that thing into a corner at any angle and it will just screech the tires..

I wanted to push it a lot more and keep up with this guy, but long sweepers the car would just plow the nose and lean badly...the oversize tires and their lack of grip arent helping either. And no matter how many times I was tempted to hit the brake in mid turn, I kept my foot in it til the front tires started to squeal. I did it instinctively once on a long sweeper and the back got VERY light and was twitching a lot...I guess I was on the verge of spinnging it..

btw I thnk CJ has that in his quote...
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:10 AM
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Re: Ah the smell of scorched brake pads...

Quote:
Originally posted by bluebullet
No one on the road (yeah I know someone is gonna try to be smart and tell me I was a dumass) cept me and him.

.............Unless anybody else has a better idea?
Glad you covered that, my friend. How about saving it for the track next time?
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:33 AM
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When making improvements in a car it should always be in this order: brakes, suspension, driver, THEN horsepower (or weight reduction).
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Old 09-30-2004, 11:53 AM
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bluebullet:

Some points to ponder:
- ever watched a NASCAR race? ever watched a NASCAR crash?These are drivers that have thousands of miles of flat-out driving, and 1 person makes a TINY mistake, and you have a multi car crash........
-what makes you think the Integra driver is infallable?
-what makes you think you are?
-what makes you think your road is safer than a racetrack?
-how can you guarantee that "Aunt Martha" won't pull out in front
of the two of you?....doing 35 mph......

I'm saying this because I've "been there and done that".....it was dumb when I did it and it is dumb now.....I have had friends killed "playing"..........

My point is this - the consequences are HUGE, for everyone....PLEASE use better judgement.....

Last edited by GUMBALL; 09-30-2004 at 04:36 PM..
Old 09-30-2004, 04:31 PM
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well like I said in the first post..no one was out on the road...not ONE person.. 3AM and the hwy is deserted around here. The roads that i was on, I have been traveling them for the past 7 years. Nothing has changed cept the 3 year resurfacing. I know where every single bump, dip and pothole are. I already spun this car once, so its not like I was gallavanting into turns not knowing what the heck I was doing. If anything I was keeping myself from pushing the car hard to prevent what I did on my birthday....spinning the car and almost putting it into the bushes.

I also know that I'm not perfect and niether is he. I consider myself an above average driver, not because I can handle my car at reckless speeds, but since ive started driving I always keep very aware of my surroundings. I dont even know why my car has a radio in it, cuse its never on unless im crusin around town. On the hwy I devote 100 percent of my attention to driving. Anytime Im involved at higher than normal speeds and if there are other cars around, I dont go cutting people off and driving all fast and furious. The entire time I kept myself a good distance somewhat behind him, and I passed him twice, from two lanes over. None of that 'grazing the car so close I coulda leaned out the window and slapped the back of his head' kinda *****. That stuff panics the other driver and either puts you in a bad situation, him...or both of you.

Ive been going to street races for almost 5 years now....I watch the idiotic ***** that people do, trying to be cool...cutting people off and trying to spin your car around using the ebrake at 30 mph only gets people hurt as it did quite a few times.
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Old 09-30-2004, 04:49 PM
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......"30 mph only gets people hurt"........then how do you justify 100 mph plus?

"the road was empty at 3 am"...ever seen a deer cross the road?
...also, at 100 mph, you are over-driving your headlights by about 60 feet per second.........

the point you're missing...YOU ARE NOT IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT

Last edited by GUMBALL; 09-30-2004 at 06:03 PM..
Old 09-30-2004, 05:13 PM
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well...i would take those points in case if:

-there were deer in central long island, near the southern state parkway...or if they could cross 8 lanes....
-if the parkway street lamps werent there...

I wasnt driving on a dark back road where I couldnt see anything....

and i can justify the 100mph because im not trying to drift or use my ebrake...thats asking to kill yourself
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:09 PM
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what do i have in my quote now?
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:15 PM
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"There are people who actually despise Porsches, but we reckon they've never driven one."

thats what you have
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:26 PM
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I was thinking the same thing when I got my 944 out on the track the other day. I was racing with a bunch of other cars, and all of them had me in the corners. I would set up really nice for a corner, start my turn, and my car would lean like crazy. Makes it really hard to go fast through the corners. I've driven a couple cars with stiffer suspensions, and I really wish mine was stiffer.
I'm considering some stiffer springs.
I've already done the brake upgrades, and I completely agree with the order, brakes, suspension, driver, power. Although, I did not quite follow it. I did driver, brakes, and now I'm coming up on suspension.

But, that said, even though I had the least powerful car on the track that day, with a soft suspension, I only came in 3rd last, lol.
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:53 PM
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I think if you're gonna use different tyres to the stock spec, you need to address a great many issues with the suspension setup. I'm lucky enough to have the MO30 upgrade on my S2 and while the car does lean a lot, it holds beautifully. I was always lead to believe by my mechanic (who has raced porsches for 20 years) that the lean helps it stick to the road by transferring more weight to the side that needs pinning down. If it doesn't lean over the whole car will drift (which can be most disconcerting). The thing about the 50/50 weight is that it behaves like a pendulum. We all know it's better to have all the weight in the middle of the car and while the '44s are perfectly balanced they have a tendancy to swing - hence the long travel on the suspension to absorb it. Stiffen it up too much and you'll find the car snaps between understeer and oversteer. This makes smoother driving more difficult and more necessary at the same time...
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Old 10-01-2004, 02:54 AM
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Take a pound of air out of the fronts, add some wedge and drop the bar two turns. You should be fine.


What you said:
"there were deer in central long island, near the southern state parkway..."

What the deer said:
We've been walking forever! Aren't we almost near the southern state parkway? We better turn around 'cause we're not supposed to be there. Everyone knows that. Okay everybody, 'bout face and take your white tails back the way you came. Let's go. Before someone gets hurt!

What you said:
"or if they could cross 8 lanes...."

What the deer said:
"C'mon honey lets cross here. Oh, guess not. I count 8 lanes of traffic and you know we can only cross six."

At least it was a lit parkway. Much easier on the rescue guys to find all the body parts.
Old 10-01-2004, 05:06 AM
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of course a little leaning is okay, but i don't think these cars should be leaning hard into corners... mine doesn't, at least...

maybe new sway bars and shocks are in order?
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Old 10-01-2004, 07:11 AM
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I suppose it's all relative but i used to drive a lotus elise around and that didn't lean at all! My old '44 leant a lot more than this one - but it didn't handle as well either, and neither of them held the road like the 135R!

Thing is, 944s aren't the fastest cars on the road by a long way, they never will be, but they are huge fun!
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:31 AM
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This is all shocking news to me. Maybe I've been out of the loop in driving other sportscars, but always believed that the 944 had absolutely wonderful handling.
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:39 AM
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well If I prolly jumped into my friends mustang I would prolly regard the 944 as an excellent handling car. Maybe I should give the suspension an overhaul cuse the front shocks look like they have never been replaced, and the springs are all rusty. The rears look relatively new, just OE Boge shocks. I just want something a little stiffer, cuse all that lean did freak me out (then again I might have entered the corner too fast...if I hit the apex right with the right speed it prolly would have been a lot better). I would like to at least put springs on the front and do shocks all around, and leave it at that. I dont want coilovers or nothing like that because for a street car thats stupid...Ive ridden in extremely lowered cars and race coilovers..its pointless...your kidneys hurt when you are done.

The shop I work for is currently working the bugs out a 500+hp Eclipse with standalong management. We ran out of injector (720ccs just werent big enough ) but for the first few nights out, taking it down a local stretch where the domestics set up their money runs, its wicked fast. Its slammed to the ground and has some cheap ass shocks (we told him he needs to replace) but the car rides hard as a rock. I got out of the car later that night and had to sit down becasue my kidneys hurt so much.
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Old 10-01-2004, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurt V
When making improvements in a car it should always be in this order: brakes, suspension, driver, THEN horsepower (or weight reduction).
Ill have to disagree. The driver is the absolute most important thing. This is why 944 spec cars lap inexperienced 951 drives on the track (even with mods).

Maybe the other driver was simply more experienced, so it might not be anything wrong with your car? Also, im very suprised that you caught up to him on the straights, I think the acura acclerates faster.
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Old 10-01-2004, 12:25 PM
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Old 10-01-2004, 05:07 PM
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