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winter-hater club member
 
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i THINK one must still check the tension, even with an auto-magic tensioner, as i have heard, but don't KNOW, that their initial tension may be off (high or low).
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1988 white 951 - ingrid, 1999 Ducati 900ss CR - jezebel, 1996 Discovery, 2000 forester

PPOT: the sound of one hand clapping.
Old 12-28-2004, 08:27 AM
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by nize
i don't care wether i have a timing chain or not, but WHY DON'T I HAVE A SUPER-STRONG BELT???
It's a German conspiracy.

Pretty soon we'll all be eating Bratwurst and celebrating Oktoberfest.
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Old 12-28-2004, 08:27 AM
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I already do both!!!
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Bob S. former owner of a 1984 silver 944
Old 12-28-2004, 08:46 AM
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the newer 18mm belt is supposedly stronger, but how much I do not know.
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Bob S. former owner of a 1984 silver 944
Old 12-28-2004, 08:48 AM
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That whining noise (belts-not the other) is caused by the belt teeth meshing with the pullies. Specifically the balance belt and pullies. If your balance belt does not have the little groove down the length of each tooth then it will make noise.

There is also the chance that the back cover was not cut correctly for the newer water pumps that have the metal fence that keeps the timing belt from hitting itself when/if it becomes loose/streatched. The cover can be hitting the timing belt. Pull the top plastic cover and see if there is belt guts (dust) all over the place.
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Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
Never break more than you fix!
Old 12-28-2004, 09:02 AM
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little groove? never seen a balance belt with a little groove.
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1988 white 951 - ingrid, 1999 Ducati 900ss CR - jezebel, 1996 Discovery, 2000 forester

PPOT: the sound of one hand clapping.
Old 12-28-2004, 09:23 AM
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yup, i can buy into the "why dont they make a stronger belt?} from going from 15mm up to 18mm, seems to have made a substantial improvement. i think they could go to 20mm, and somewhere like 1, or 2 mm on the thickness side {that would be the flat side of cam belt}. there is enough play in the eccentric roller for adjustment. only problem on that horizon, would be re-calibrating the p9201, for the stiffer belt etc.
now, if we really wanted to talk about superior german engineering?, then i think that they should have came up with an update, to fit all early cars etc, with a sensor unit, that warns you of imminent belt failure. dont laugh, it can be done!
all one can do, is to follow the belt maintenance religiously, and discard at 30k, and hope that the new belt you purchased, has no defects. {that, and pray to whatever deity you subscribe to!}
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1984 944 na.
FR. WILK power prom/dual chip.
2005 buick. daily beater
2002 grand am--better halfs ride.
olds 98 royal brougham--gone, but not forgotten.
Old 12-28-2004, 09:38 AM
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i pray to the beer god...
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1988 white 951 - ingrid, 1999 Ducati 900ss CR - jezebel, 1996 Discovery, 2000 forester

PPOT: the sound of one hand clapping.
Old 12-28-2004, 10:03 AM
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ah yes. i have visited his temple often!!
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1984 944 na.
FR. WILK power prom/dual chip.
2005 buick. daily beater
2002 grand am--better halfs ride.
olds 98 royal brougham--gone, but not forgotten.
Old 12-28-2004, 10:34 AM
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Belt Warning Light:


YOUR BELT HAS BROKEN
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Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
Never break more than you fix!
Old 12-28-2004, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoCal Driver
Belt Warning Light:


YOUR BELT HAS BROKEN
hahah! or how about;

VALVE DAMAGED
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Old 12-28-2004, 02:39 PM
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hmm, i have not visited any of those temples!!
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1984 944 na.
FR. WILK power prom/dual chip.
2005 buick. daily beater
2002 grand am--better halfs ride.
olds 98 royal brougham--gone, but not forgotten.
Old 12-28-2004, 04:04 PM
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but yes, i suppose the engineering is complicated for n.america, witness all the posts "what can i do, my timing belt has broken!" after the fact.
at least we can all have a joke regarding this poor state of affairs.
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1984 944 na.
FR. WILK power prom/dual chip.
2005 buick. daily beater
2002 grand am--better halfs ride.
olds 98 royal brougham--gone, but not forgotten.
Old 12-28-2004, 04:13 PM
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there are many types of sensor, that could be pressed into service, but i will suggest one, that is simple to explain, and to understand.
i'm talking about the break-down of a belt, not a sudden snap. when a belt starts to break-down, the strands come away, and flare out, due to rotation. a simple sensor mounted about 5mm away from the belt, will be activated when the strands hit against it, thereby giving warning that something is amiss. the removable cam cover could be a source for the placement of the sensor, or any other part of the plastic guard.
this is standard engineering practice for many applications.
you do have a sensor for brake pad wear, which is commendable, but in view of the consequences of a belt failure, i fail to see the humour generated by my suggestion. not that i'm peeved, or anything like it. i do enjoy a good laugh. my point was to raise your perception from no hope, to yes, there can be some redress to this problem.
my apology's, i do tend to look at all problems from a purely engineering point of view.
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1984 944 na.
FR. WILK power prom/dual chip.
2005 buick. daily beater
2002 grand am--better halfs ride.
olds 98 royal brougham--gone, but not forgotten.
Old 12-28-2004, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigyagi
yup, i can buy into the "why dont they make a stronger belt?} from going from 15mm up to 18mm, seems to have made a substantial improvement. i think they could go to 20mm, and somewhere like 1, or 2 mm on the thickness side {that would be the flat side of cam belt}. there is enough play in the eccentric roller for adjustment. only problem on that horizon, would be re-calibrating the p9201, for the stiffer belt etc.
now, if we really wanted to talk about superior german engineering?, then i think that they should have came up with an update, to fit all early cars etc, with a sensor unit, that warns you of imminent belt failure. dont laugh, it can be done!
all one can do, is to follow the belt maintenance religiously, and discard at 30k, and hope that the new belt you purchased, has no defects. {that, and pray to whatever deity you subscribe to!}
My old Honda was on its 4th timing belt (60,000 mile interval) when I got rid of it. Never gave the belt a second thought. Replaced it at the intervals and it was fine.

Everyone worries about the belt on these cars like it's more prone to breaking than other belts. It's not.

ZV
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AaronM
Everyone worries about the belt on these cars like it's more prone to breaking than other belts. It's not.
ZV
the whole point of a super-strong belt isn't to prevent the belt from breaking, it's to EXTEND THE TIME between belt changes. so instead of having to change the belt every 30k miles, how about every 60k miles? or even 100k miles? that's what a super-strong belt would allow you to do.

and the whole point in THAT is because changing the timing belt on these cars is not as easy as on a honda or pretty much any other car out there.
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Old 12-28-2004, 09:32 PM
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The reason is simple. Porsche are no dummies, they know cars designed with timing belt/water pump/roller replacement are big revenue producers. They could have easily designed and produced a timing chain engine, but it would have cost less for the owner to maintain.

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Old 12-28-2004, 10:25 PM
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blackfoot; that may be true, but it still doesn't explain why AFTERMARKET options are still not available for these cars, when they're available all over the place for japanese (and other) cars that all use timing belts. even on cars that were produced many years after the 944 series were.

what's up with that?
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Old 12-28-2004, 10:33 PM
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Supply and demand, how many people do you know own a 944? How many people do you know own some make of a Japanese econobox? If your interested in a stronger belt, why dont you contact the companies that make these and try and push to have one produced for our series cars?
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Old 12-29-2004, 12:16 AM
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already did that. no reply (yet).
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Old 12-29-2004, 07:23 AM
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Old 12-29-2004, 07:23 AM
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