Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 924/944/968 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11
Test drove 944 S, made offer...

So I noticed last year there was a nice looking white 1988 944 S at one of the larger dealers in town with 104K listed at 7999. Too high to even talk to them about it. The car sat for months, and they auctioned it I assume, and a small, local dealer bought it. He's listing it at $6450. A little closer to reality. Anyway, I go and check it out and its very clean. He says there is a repair on tha passenger door, which I couldn't see. I drive it and its pretty nice, maybe a little sloppy in the handling department.

I tell him I need to get a PPI next week, and If there are no problems, I'll make an offer. He asks me how much I have in mind. I tell him $4500. He says I'm wasting his time and walks off, gets totally P'd off! Even when I'm driving away he's like shaking his head at me like I insulted his mother! Weird experience. I thought $4500 was a pretty good starting point. I figured he probably paid between 2-3K at auction, and had maybe $200 init for A/C recharge and belts.

Was I totally off? I'm thinking I may hear back from him after the car sits a while. He wants cash only, also, no financing, I just can't imagine a cash buyer for it at that price. Thoughts?
Old 04-02-2005, 08:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
CT944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 827
he needs to sell that car more than you need to buy it. tell him you want to get the PPI and if it checks out good, you may offer more, or less. the large dealer wholesaled it to him for probably book value. i'd say he picked it up for $3-3.5K
__________________
2007 997 TT
1992 500e
Old 04-02-2005, 08:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Enthuzed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sometimes Sacramento, Most of the time Concord, CA
Posts: 185
i don't know, from what i've seen, even very clean examples of regular 944 na's can go for $4500-$6500, and that car being a 944S........
__________________
1987 944 Naturally Animalistic

"If you make the same mistake twice, doesn't that make a total of three mistakes?"
Old 04-02-2005, 08:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Custom User Title
 
Dave L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Barrie, Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,954
He's not going to take a loss on the car so it is possible that he paid more than your initial offer. Also if you think he paid $200 for an Ac recharge and belts let me know where you are as I will drive anywhere to get that kind of service done for that kind of cash. FWIW I paid $600 CDN for an "ac recharge" which also included all new lines. This is the absolute minimum that I could have expected and I was lucky to get off so easy, I have heard of AC repairs in the thousands. Belts will also set up back a few hundred at the least.

Regarding the "no financing" I think you need to consider whether you can afford the car. We are talking about a 17 year old car, my opinion is that if you cant pay cash, or damn near close to it you shouldnt buy one. I have been looking for a replacement for my 944 since august and am getting sick of seeing cars where to owners cant afford to do maintenance and let them go to hell. I dont want to discourage just be carefull and know what you are getting into. Do LOTS of research, read ALL the Faq's and buyers guides and so searches through this forum and you will be all set.

More specific to your "S" have you asked about waterpump, clutch, timingbelt, and the timing chain guide? These are all very important and potentially expensive maintenance items, if they were done the car is worth alot more than if there is no history. In the case of the timing belt and timing chain tensioner, if these were to fail you are looking at awapping out or rebuilding the 16v head. Personally I look for cars where all the maintenance has been done, it may be more expensive but it ussaully means that all of the other little repairs and items that need attention were done as well.

Just my opinion, Ive been up since 2am so this may come off a little harsh, sorry.

PS Welcome to the board!
Old 04-02-2005, 11:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Mein Gott!
 
Panzer909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,520
Garage
As the buyer, you're always in charge.

Forget it and move on. There's still plenty of decent cars out there in the $4500 range - although probably not an "S". But you really wouldn't want a 16v car as a first 944 anyways. Not that much of a power difference, IMHO. But thats another conversation altogether.
__________________
Johnny
1987 944S
1984 944 (R.I.P.)
1972 Triumph TR6 - 100% trouble free between breakdowns
2003 BMW 325xi
Old 04-02-2005, 12:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
auh auh is offline
Registered User
 
auh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Highland Park, IL
Posts: 654
Send a message via AIM to auh
The "S" has 190 and the NA has 150. IDK how much of a diff you will feel but thats surely a big difference
__________________
1974 914 1.8 Sold...
1984 944 my baby...more of a pain in the @$$ than takin' it with a cucumber, but I still love it. THE CAR YOU PERVS!!!!!!!!!!!!
1990 Nissan 240sx fastback aka Japanese 944
Old 04-02-2005, 12:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Jacksonville IL
Posts: 234
Garage
Send a message via AIM to operationcougar
coming from one sales man talking about another id say he doesnt know what hes doing, you made an offer you are interested, i would have brought you in to see some paperwork or something to reinforce the price im trying to get out of it, if he wont do that im willing to bet someone made a mistake at some point, and in order for them to sell the car, they are going to have to wait for someone not as informed as you are about it, then at that point hes going to try to sell the car as some kind of supercar bearing the porsche logo

my advice to you is just to wait, hed rather take your offer then to have a hole to throw money in ( insurance, and taxes ) itll even out at some point unless that "underinformed comes along" just go in and let him know you are still inerested, as long as he isnt compleatly incompatent

good luck
__________________
95 - BMW 740i (daily driver)
02 - kawasaki mean streak (nice weather driver)
RX-7 built of other RX's (and a good place to throw money) (sold)
z31 300zx vg30det+ (new money sucker)
Old 04-02-2005, 12:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 845
Send a message via AIM to bluebullet
the guy that I want to pick up the next car from is selling it for 4K..its an 87 in white with 18" fuchs on it. He also has the original pair of 15" fuchs Im guessing that hes giving as well. I told him Id give him 5 to have it running in top condition (do the belts and waterpump and put the headlights in). The car was given to him by a guy with a 951 who couldnt afford the maintenance and gave him the car as payment.
__________________
1985 944 / 2007 335i / 1987 325is / 1985 535i / 1999 528iT / 2006 X5
Old 04-02-2005, 03:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Blackfoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Post Falls, Idaho
Posts: 2,072
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by bluebullet
..its an 87 in white with 18" fuchs on it.
Those are some fuchin rare fuchs!

__________________
Cars
Old 04-02-2005, 04:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 569
First of all, why is this used "S" handling sloppy? When correctly maintained, that car should feel like no other you have ever driven, unless compared to another Porsche.

As for the price, if the car is straight, has the proper maintainence records all needed updates, including fresh belts, rollers, waterpump update and recent clutch, it wouldn't be a bad price.

Of course if it had that it wouldn't feel sloppy and have glass in the door. I also think the "S" would feel quite a bit faster than the NA/944.
__________________
AJF

1998 Glacier White Boxster
1971 Fiat 124 Spyder
1999 Mercury Mountaineer
Old 04-02-2005, 04:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gtroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 621
How's the clutch?

$4500 with 104K seems like a perfect offer. You could go higher ($1K higher?) with some maintenance history (clutch, chain tensioner...).

I did $7K for mine (a beauty) with 70K ~three years ago. Too much, but what did I know back then.

If you really want it ask him to show you why it's worth a premium. Be prepared - know what some big, un-done jobs are going to cost you and what these cars are going for on ebay, autotrader, etc. Don't forget there's alot of these out there - probably even one you'll like better.
__________________
1995 993C4 guards red
1988 944S alpine white
Old 04-02-2005, 04:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Mein Gott!
 
Panzer909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,520
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by Ferrara_racing

..............I also think the "S" would feel quite a bit faster than the NA/944.

Have you guys driven or owned both? Yes, the top end power is better, but nothing to write home about. But we're drifting off to the "is the S worth it" debate. I'm just suggesting to the guy that he can avoid this particular car for sale and have a great 8v 944 for the price he's looking for - without missing much from the 16v engine. Trust me
__________________
Johnny
1987 944S
1984 944 (R.I.P.)
1972 Triumph TR6 - 100% trouble free between breakdowns
2003 BMW 325xi
Old 04-02-2005, 04:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 569
Panzer, I've owned a NA/944 . I've read the performance stats from purely Porsche GT. In some respects you are right, the numbers are close. I just think in my NA I always craved a bit more acceleration in the low end. Everyone tries to find the "holy grail" of performance in the 944. They change throttle cams, chips, air intakes. exhausts all looking for an extra hp or two. It seems to me the S might not be bad choice if there is a nice one available..
__________________
AJF

1998 Glacier White Boxster
1971 Fiat 124 Spyder
1999 Mercury Mountaineer
Old 04-02-2005, 04:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Custom User Title
 
Dave L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Barrie, Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,954
Driving a 944, 944S back to back I can say that your REALLY have to wring out the S at the top end to see any real difference in performance. The S is ussually desirable as a track car as is ussually driven near redline. For day to day performance there is very little difference. If you are looking for something fasterer find a 951
Old 04-02-2005, 04:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11
Thanks so much for the replies. A few things first...

1. I used to be on this board as Orkrist, IIRC. I was looking for a 944 n/a when I started law school. I ended up spending my money on a 1984 MB 300 turbo diesel, one owner, all records and window sticker. It also had an interesting "legal" history, and I couldn't say no. Its been the greatest car I've ever owned. I even noticed all over again how nice it was to drive on the way home form the test drive!

2. I've been following these cars for a few years. I know what they go for on Ebay, what is asked for in auto trader, etc. I wanted a PPI, so I went by the BMW/Porsche/Audi shop by my house. Not the one I use for my car, but my indie mech went under for reasons unknown recently. He still hasn't surfaced. Wish he was here now...The mech I went to said to never pay more than 5K for a 944, no matter what. Now, its easy to take issue with this, but he ushered me through his shop and showed me a 944, a 951 and a 928, and told me why they were there and what it cost for repairs. I appreciated it, and it reminded me of people I knew who bought these in a buyers market for way less than the asking price. More on this in a second.

3. I want a 944, especially white and especially with phone dials. I went to high school in the 80's man, this car is as totally cool now as it was then as far as I'm concerned. I've got daily drivers, I want a sportscar, and I don't want a WRX/Mitsu Evo/RX7/Supra/300Z/Trans Am/Mustang/Camaro/Neon SRT-4. I don't care what the 0-60 time is either. My friends all think I'm stupid, with their ricers and their '05 Mustangs. One even gave me a desk model of a 944 as a gag gift. You get my drift I'm sure.

4. Back to this car. This car has been shuffled around dealers for almost a YEAR. The seller mentioned the repairs as though his buddy at a Porshce shop did them so I'm figuring in the "brother-in-law" rate. I also have the cash. I can understand the need to turn the car, and I'm a cash buyer. I don't know many people willing to plop down 5K in cash for an old 944 that isn't even fast compared to some basic 4-doors today, unless they're kids at home working at Dominoes or some nut job who thinks its a supercar.

5. I made my offer considering all these things and I was pissed the dude didn't even counter me his asking price again! I'm a lawyer for Christ's sake. Screw with me a little, we like it!

6. Anyway, I'm going to wait a few weeks and if it isn't sold, I'll call him again and maybe work it out. It did seem a little sloppier than the last 944 n/a I drove, an 86 with a cracked dash and missing a door liner, no climate control, oil pressure gauge didn't work, and the interior was trash. This one had working heat, A/C, door locks, windows, no cracks, even has the arm rest cover, I pulled a standing start in 3rd, and the rear hatch opener works. Bads-no records, I've seen the carfax and its at least a 2 owner car, 104K on an "s", stereo face plate is missing, and the sunroof doesn't work. Dealer says the motor is good but the cable is bad. Without a PPI, I assume the worst.

So, we'll see. I'm scared a little by the "ventillator" and its unique issues, but I love the color and the condition. The dealer may never want to talk to me again after I dissed his mama, but I may give it a try. Any further thought? I was surpised by the responses, and I thank you.
Old 04-02-2005, 10:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 260
I think your offer was far lower than the dealer wanted, and he had a right to walk away. To offer 4k is far to low on a 944S, I paid over 4k for my NA (far more than its worth) and good examples of NA's sell for more.

A 944S is a rarier, and more powerful car yet you have to ask your self if the premium is even worth it. If I were you (and as an owner of a white NA with phone dials) I would take the 4K you offered and buy a nice low mileage NA. Once your in a better financial situation I would buy the holy grail of the 944 line a 951. The 50 hp difference between a NA and an S is not substainial enough to warrent the premium. Also the increased power won't be significant enough to notice in dalily driving.

Just my 2 cents.
Old 04-03-2005, 01:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Writer/Teacher
 
CJFusco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wandering Connecticut
Posts: 9,288
Garage
Send a message via AIM to CJFusco
Quote:
Originally posted by auh
The "S" has 190 and the NA has 150. IDK how much of a diff you will feel but thats surely a big difference
Well, that is peak HP. How about low-end? I have driven several different 944 variants - early 944, 944S, post-85 944, and 944S2 - and the 944S doesn't really feel much faster than the lighter, early 944NA... especially an early NA with the Wilk chip. The torque curve is even sharper in the 944S, and, yes, you do get more power at the top end, and it does seem to rev faster once the revs get up there, but it feels even less gutsy than the 8V cars at low RPM.

My bet? In a straight line, an early car with the FRWilk chip would be just as fast, if not faster, than a 944S.
__________________
Current Stable: Black 07 Porsche Cayman S: FabSpeed Maxflo Exhaust; VividRacing ECU Tune; IPD Competition Plenum; 997GT3 Throttle Body; De-Snork'd.2011 Acura MDX. 2008 Mazda 3. Gone But Not Forgotten:Garnet Red 86 Porsche 951("The Purple Pig"). Silver 09 Mini Cooper S ("Mighty Mouse"). Alpine White 83 Porsche 944 ("Alpine Wolf"). Guards Red 84 Porsche 944. Green 97 Volvo 850 Wagon ("The Viridian Falcon").
Old 04-03-2005, 06:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
bearone2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,327
Cool

Quote:
Originally posted by Panzer909
Have you guys driven or owned both? Yes, the top end power is better, but nothing to write home about. But we're drifting off to the "is the S worth it" debate. I'm just suggesting to the guy that he can avoid this particular car for sale and have a great 8v 944 for the price he's looking for - without missing much from the 16v engine. Trust me
owned both and from 50-90/starting in 3rd, the "S" was a rocket ship on 87.
__________________
87 951, K27/6, Almond Beige, 17" Turbotwist
87 944S, alpine white, 5sp died a violent death
84 944, silver/brown, auto, gone but not forgotten

"may the force be with you"
Old 04-03-2005, 12:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:40 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.