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spark plugs update

Question : if the seals are bad in the head what "should" the appearance of the plugs be?? Should there be eveidence of oil coming into / onto the plugs???
newby

Last edited by porwanabe; 04-13-2005 at 10:30 AM..
Old 04-09-2005, 06:21 AM
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According to page 43 of my haynes manual describing spark plug conditions:

Oil Deposits:
Symptoms: Oily coating caused by poor oil control. Oil is leaking past worn valve guides or piston rings into the combustion chamber. Causes hard starting, misfiring, and hesition.

What do your plugs look like?
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1983 944 - Sable Brown Metallic / Saratoga / LSD : IceShark Light Kit
Old 04-09-2005, 06:34 AM
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I do not have any of that at all. I to looked at the haynes manual. I have between normal and white ( heat issues). I can not find any issues with oil coming onto/into the spark plug. The compression is fine ( do not have the numbers in front on me) but have smoke at times coming out of exhaust. Local shop ( to quickly) said it was seals ( they were just done). Something just ain't kosher.
newby
Old 04-09-2005, 07:00 AM
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Color of the smoke and at what time during the driving (starting/aceleration) that this appears is important. If you are refering to oil on the outer top of the plug a bad seal on the filler allows some blow by.
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Old 04-09-2005, 07:28 AM
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Color of smoke: having some trouble telling at the moment. It appears white"ish / Blue"ish" but from time to time we see black or dirty color. I understand White may mean a head gasket or some form of leakeage into the heads of coolant. The blue may mean oil burning ( either seals ( various ) or rings.
I did notice the oil level was to high ( just past the 2 marks and reduced it to just above the 1st mark. Waiting to see if that helps the issue.

The whens : It does not do it when I start the car which lends me ( though I am not an expert ) to believe it is not the seals. It happens ( when it does ) under acceleration but not all the time. It appears to go away after a period of time and will do it on occasion. When it idles there is some discharge but we can not tell the color at the moment. I did have problem when we took turns. Someone suggested that I check the oil level as it may be forcing its way out many areas to which it may end up in the air cleaner etc and so forth.
Car has had a valve job and while I do not have the #'s the bottom end I was told it was fine. No issues with acceleration, easy starting, no issues during idle, no missing, no hesitations, no nothing. runs great. No issues with over heating - new thermo sensor and coolant. gauge reads correctly.

I am still doing a smell test ( getting high at the same time from the fumes ) but I sware it smells rich. But the smoke does not indicate that.
I do not have he tools but I want someone to test the O2 sensor and make sure the air mixture is correct.

I am taking to a porsche shop on tuesday ( if it is not sold by then ) to have them look at it. A local import haus (deals with Porsche's) looked at the car for two minutes and decided it is the seals. Do not want to pay the piper and find out it was not the seals the begin with. Want to check every other option first.

newby
Old 04-09-2005, 09:29 AM
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Update. I drained the oil and put 20/50 in up to just past 1st mark. Noticable difference. Still seeing smoke as I am driving "especially" as I am turning. Straight line can't tell. Underhard acceleration nothing appears. I took it on the highway and got down hard on it and saw nothing but that may be simply the fact I was going fast. Smoke "appears" to be blue"ish" but not totally certain. Come to a stop and get out, nothing. There is a smell ( exhaust) coming through the cockpit but i can not tell the texture ( oil, rich or sweet ). But I am not sure if it is not gunk burning off, coolant from the recent change, or something else.

going to pull of air box and check the filter to see if anything in box.

did let car cool totally before drive and nothing when I started car. Weather at 65-70 degrees today.

Any other suggestions?

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Old 04-09-2005, 11:14 AM
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Which car do you have? On the Turbos, it's not uncommon for the turbos to be worn-out and leak a lot of oil into the intakes. but the smoke only shows up under full-throtle accelerations.

Do a leak-down and compression-check. Could be the oil-rings being worn out.

If you've got oil seeping down the valve-stems, you can usually see this on the back of the intake-valves. Take your intake-manifold off and look for a valve that's fully closed and see how much oil is sitting on the back of it. I've seen many cars with worn-out turbos with 1-3cc of oil puddled up on the back of the intake-valve.

Another possibility is your FPR. Or vacuum lines going to the FPR. If there's a break in a T or a leak on any of the other hoses, you'll end up with too much fuel-pressure (vacuum from manifold lowers fuel-pressure). Or better yet, hook up a vacuum-tester to every device that uses a vacuum line and make sure it holds vacuum indefinitely. Then hook up a vacuum gauge to each of the lines going to these devices and make sure you have full vacuum coming out of each of those hoses ; around 20inHg at idle.
Old 04-10-2005, 03:09 AM
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I have a stock 86 non turbo. Going to ask a dumb question - what is FPR ( newby).
Things I have done:
1) washed the block and surrounding area so I can better check for leaks
2) found the following : steering rack boot ( exhaust ) side is torn. The line going into the steering pump has a small leak ( I am sure greater when car is going. A slight leak at the oil filter.
3) No other noticeable leaks. Check head and cam shaft and nothing come from that.
4) No overheating or any heating issues at all.
5) Found a blue wire hanging ( suspect it came from oil pressure sending unit (???) - was the ground wire. Grounded it and now on the dash I am getting brake fluid low and a "pad" light. Disconnect it and it goes away. Strange.
6) Am taking car to a "porsche" only mechanic for a leak down test.
7) Did not check via vaccum tester, but tried to account for all hoses and make sure nothing missing or popping off. did find one rather large hose underneath car coming from the intake side that does not have a tight fit. Not sure where it goes, trying to determine.
Still trying to figure out the smoking issue. Not happy at the moment.
Old 04-11-2005, 06:33 PM
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I would question the valve job. Were the valve guides replaced? If not even new stem seals will wear out quickly and let oil by during hard acceleration.

Do as Danno requests and check the vacuum system. The FPR is the fuel pressure regulator. One of the two can like goodies on the injector manifold. Actually the one that has the return hose clamped to it rather than a high pressure fitting.

Do you have to add coolent every day? If not it's not a cracked head or blown head gasket.
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Old 04-11-2005, 06:45 PM
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I will do as requested. Understand what the FPR is know. thanks.
I do not have to put "any" coolant in at all. No leaking or anything. I will however give it a check on tuesday to make sure. The temp gauge has never shown any signs of getting out of hand via temp.
As far as the valve job. Done prior to purchase. Have receipts and know the mechanic. According to the receipt he replaced everything ( valves, springs, stems, seals etc and etc ).
Question - newby question - vaccuum tester - sears?? Do not have this tool.. Good excuse for another one.
If I get nothing out of this 944 experience, it will be a new and complete tools.
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Old 04-11-2005, 06:58 PM
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Here's my SWAG...(Scientific Wild A$$ Guess)...

The power steering leak, and /or your oil filter leak have been contributing their fluids to the exhaust headers.

My '83 needed new O-rings in the back of the balance shaft housing, and hard turns to the left, going down hill would send up a cloud of smoke as the oil came out of this area and hit the exhaust headers. On the straighaways the oil dripped down the block, and missed the exhaust pipe, some smoke but not like the corners.

good luck
JM
Old 04-12-2005, 04:43 AM
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Re-check the reciepts for "valve guides". If not listed then the ones in the car are worn and have worn the stem seals.
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Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
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When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
Never break more than you fix!
Old 04-12-2005, 07:07 AM
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question about the O rings -balance shaft. Newby question : is this repair with engine in car or out. Looking at the manual and it appears it "might" be an out of body job.
newby
Old 04-12-2005, 07:16 PM
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