Deletign the sunroof

Capri22racer · 08-23-2005, 07:08 AM

Anyone ever deleted the sunroof before?

Here's what I've got and looking for any info or tips before starting the project.

A 84 944 non sunroof roller and a 91 944S2 with a sunroof. I would like to cut out the non-sunroof panel and swap it into the S2.

Any input would be great. Thanks!

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

I "delete" the sunroof on every nice day.

Today it's about 78 and sunny here in CT. Think I'll "delete" the sunroof and leave it in the garage while I take the Porsche for a spin.

Capri22racer · 08-23-2005, 09:45 AM

LOL

Yeah, I hear ya! Seems everytime I actually leave the sunroof in the garage I end up driving into rain! DOH!

will944 · will944's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by CJFusco
I "delete" the sunroof on every nice day.

Today it's about 78 and sunny here in CT. Think I'll "delete" the sunroof and leave it in the garage while I take the Porsche for a spin.

No doubt. The weather today (and tomorrow from what I see) is just awesome!! I'm going home for a bike ride....then out for a nice cruise through Killingworth.....just don't tell the Police will ya

Jason Judd · 08-24-2005, 06:19 AM

We deleted the sunroof from my 968...went and cut and welded in a piece from Porsche...non sunroof coupe roof.

It saves a lot of weight...

Jason

Robby C · 08-24-2005, 06:47 AM

The best way to do this is to find a carbon fibre panel to bolt in... this would be much easier & would be much lighter, since, it's a really large areea...

Jason Judd · 08-24-2005, 06:50 AM

Robby is definately correct...You can contact GT Racing and get the panel.

I botched up my roof putting in an aluminum piece and couldn't come close to making it look right once it was removed. So I went and changed the roof.

Much easier, and less money, to put in the replacement panel.

Jason

AaronM · 08-24-2005, 07:30 AM

Aside from weight savings (which is mostly from the elimination of the mechanism since the panel itself is pretty light) why do this unless the car is track-only? You aren't going to gain any structural rigidity from it. Much better to keep the sunroof panel and install a rollcage if you're looking to improve rigidity.

Jason Judd · 08-24-2005, 07:39 AM

I have to disagree with you...That panel is REALLY heavy; more than 20 lbs!

The rest I do agree with you...my car is a track car. I wouldn't do it for any other reason.

Jason

Robby C · 08-24-2005, 07:45 AM

Yeah, the panel itself is going to be the same weight as what would go there if it were a sunroof-delete car- it's still a rectangular piece of metal or whatever... Not sure it's truly metal- never tried the magnet test... Anyway, the later electric-SR panels are 19.5lbs... the earlier manual style is 2 - 3lbs less, but, that's b/c of the interior design... And, the panel adds absolutely NOTHING to the structural rigidity of the car- you would do better to drive W/OUT the panel than with it in place- the only safety concern being the possibility of something coming through the open hole- the 19.5lb's removed from the highest point of the car is noticeable. I know of people who race & Auto-X w/the panel out. Anyway, removing all of the misc pieces of the SR & then swapping the panel for a thin sheet of CF would be the best for racing IMO- you can add a roll-cage for stability, like Aaron said, if you're that serious about it.

As for the structural integrity of the stock car, there are some who say the sunroof cars are actually STRONGER b/c they have more bars in the top than the non-SR cars do... I'm not sure I believe this, but, either way, the panel would have to be bolted in to add in stability & is still weight at the highest Cg...

Jason- sorry to hear about that- that sounds like something that would happen to me... Everytime I try to do something to this car I end up going about it the hard way...

Robby C · 08-24-2005, 07:50 AM

Capri- sorry- didn't really mean to get off on a tangent- in answer to your specific question, I really don't know anything about that. I just think that cutting off the roof & welding on another would be quite an undertaking. To have someone do it would cost so much money, &, to have it look good, etc, that it would probab;y become unreasonable- better to find a car w/factory sunroof-delete, OR, do the carbon fibre mod & spend all that money elsewhere... Of course, if you've done body work like that before, then, maybe not...

Dougster · 08-24-2005, 08:17 AM

Yes, it sounds like more trouble then what its worth...
Its sunny in Indy today and mine is OFF!

AaronM · 08-24-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason Judd
I have to disagree with you...That panel is REALLY heavy; more than 20 lbs!

The rest I do agree with you...my car is a track car. I wouldn't do it for any other reason.

Jason

Most of the panel's weight is in the headliner. Remove the headliner from the panel and it'll be a lot lighter. The panel itself is fiberglass if I remember correctly (it's not metal, I know that much) and it is lighter than what metal would be.

THE manning · 08-24-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AaronM
Most of the panel's weight is in the headliner. Remove the headliner from the panel and it'll be a lot lighter. The panel itself is fiberglass if I remember correctly (it's not metal, I know that much) and it is lighter than what metal would be.

Actually there is quite a bit of weight in the panel itself. I have a spreadsheet at home of what items weigh. These are weights that I personally have collected using a certified scale. IIRC, a manual sunroof panel with no interior liner oe hardware weighs 10lbs or so and a power sunroof panel, no interior liner or hardware, weighs 15lbs or so. I'll verify when I get home and edit this post to correct it. and yes they are glass fiber of some sort. The interior liner weighs very little in comparison.

The bare interior of the the body shell is pretty underwhelming quite frankly. I haven't seen the interior of a non-sunroof car, but I can't imagine it has much less in the way of cross members than the sunroof car. In that regard I doubt you save more than 5 or 10 lbs with a sunroof delete car by virtue of the sheetmetal and bracing itself. Lifting gear for a power sunroof car is another story, though it still only adds up 5 or 10 lbs total over a manual roof car.

Anybody with a stripped out sunroof delete car feel free to clarify what the roof struture looks like.

Capri22racer · 01:19 PM

The sunroof panel itself is a composite type of plastic/fiberglass and is really heavy. The actual interior trim panel weighs about nothing in comparsion. I'll weigh them tonight and post back on actual weight.

The 84 donor car inside is bare. I'll look at GT Racing too. But I figure why spend more money when I might have something I can use as is...

thanks for input, just wanted to get some insight before cutting, grinding, welding, etc.

I have a 924 Carrera GT (replica) with a sunroof for those sunny days

THE manning · 08-24-2005, 01:25 PM

Take pictures of the interior of the roof of the donor car for me if you will.

Also, don't bother weighing the panel with a bathroom scale as they can be pretty inaccurate at the lower weight range. I have seen them off ranging from not at all to 5 lbs at lower weights. I use one of two certified shipping scales. One weighs to the 10th of an ounce and the other weighs to the 10th of a pound. Also, I have individual group weights for hardware, interior and sunroof panels on the spreadsheet. I'll post the weights when I get home.

THE manning · 08-24-2005, 03:54 PM

OK, I apparently didn't enter the hardware weights on the spreadsheet when I weighed everything other than the entire kit and kabootel for the lift mechanism, etc. SO:

Sunroof panel, stock power w/o hardware or interior panel = 15.5Lbs

Sunroof interior panel = 3.8Lbs

Sunroof lift mechanism, electric, entire = 5.2Lbs

Rear interior valance, electric sunroof cars = 2lbs

Sunroof panel (924) non power w/o hardware or interior panel = 10Lbs

I used the 10th of a lbs scale for these weights because the more precise scale only goes up to 6 lbs and I didn't have it at home when I weighed the lighter stuff.

AaronM · 08-24-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by THE manning
OK, I apparently didn't enter the hardware weights on the spreadsheet when I weighed everything other than the entire kit and kabootel for the lift mechanism, etc. SO:

Sunroof panel, stock power w/o hardware or interior panel = 15.5Lbs

Sunroof interior panel = 3.8Lbs

Sunroof lift mechanism, electric, entire = 5.2Lbs

Rear interior valance, electric sunroof cars = 2lbs

Sunroof panel (924) non power w/o hardware or interior panel = 10Lbs

I used the 10th of a lbs scale for these weights because the more precise scale only goes up to 6 lbs and I didn't have it at home when I weighed the lighter stuff.

Interesting. I didn't figure it would weigh that much. Still, I doubt that metal of similar sturdiness would weigh any less.

Aaron

THE manning · 08-24-2005, 06:14 PM

I agree.

Robby C · 08-24-2005, 11:46 PM

I'm sure it's true that metal would weigh as much, if not more than the fibreglass panel- it's just a big hole... so, MY question now is... Would the sunroof delete car have fibreglass in this area where the sunroof WOULD be, OR, is the whole top metal, like I would assume...? IF metal, then, I would think the sunroof delete car would be HEAVIER... well, except, of course, for the additional hardware of the SR car... Seems like the lightest possible way would be to have a SR car w/CF panel bolted in, & NO SR hardware, gears, motor, etc...

Manning- I'm surprised the non-electric SR panel weighed so much less- by your calculations, it appears that it's 5.5lbs lighter... I picked up one from a 931 recently & compared, &, it didn't feel that much different, but, it DID feel slightly lighter... enough to make ME want to swap them out- Not that I'm THAt much of a fanatic, but, the additional weight of the electric parts would add in there too...