no start

Eldorado · 08-03-2005, 12:50 PM

here's the deal..

i started it up this morning, normal.
Picked a friend up from the bus stop.. started it up, normal.

i noticed it was squaking quite a bit when i drove it, so me being totally paranoid about the belts in this car, I take it to the shop for a quick look over... I park it, go inside, hand the guy the keys.. he goes outside to start it to pull it into his shop..... no start.

accessories and fans and everything come on like normal - just no start. nothing. no click to the starter, NOTHING.. it sounds like nothing is happening at all.

I push started it without a problem. let it idle for 5 mins or so, occasionally putting my foot on the gas to rev it... turn it off, and go to turn it on again - same deal... *nothing*..

push started it again, drove it home.. it's in the driveway..
anyone know what is going on?

new battery pulled from a wrecked 4 day old mazda RX8... started great with it for 2 weeks... stronger than my previous battery ever was..

now, 2 weeks ago when i got the master/slave work done on the car, he had to pull the starter to get at the slave... if that means anything at all...

I didn't wanna post that last little bit because everyone will just use the cop out "the wires have jiggled loose, or he wired it wrong"... but i want, if there are any, other possible solutions to this please... any help is appreciated..

thanks guys

keep my 944 on the road!!!

legion · 08-03-2005, 12:53 PM

What is your voltage reading on the dash?

Eldorado · 08-03-2005, 01:47 PM

dont have a volt meter on my '83...

but it's enough to run the a/c at full blast (both fans), turn the fans on the rad, power my antenna, headlights, brake lights, stereo, interior light, and all dash lights..

you'd think that with all that off, it would be enough juice to start it... no dice.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Need to start the car and check the voltage at the battery. Should be close to 14 vdc or a little over. If it's at 12 vdc or lower your alternator is not working. Could be the connection to the starter from the alternator. Could be the large cable from the battery to the starter. If there is an after market fitting on the positive cable these will corrode and quit conducting.

Eldorado · 08-03-2005, 02:47 PM

I'll check it out socal - thanks

any other ideas?

carsonmx114 · 08-03-2005, 07:27 PM

if it was a battery problem i would think that it would at least click when you try to start it. i think the trigger wire for the solinoid is in a two pin plug (white) by the brake booster, should be a blue and a red wire, the wire you want is the red one. use a test light to check for power when you turn the key to the start position. if you have power and the connections are good at the starter you have a soliniod problem. a bad engine ground could do this also, my car had a no start condition because of a bad ground, but it would click when i tryed to start it.

Eldorado · 08-04-2005, 05:53 PM

carson, that makes sense... we had to unplug those wires to get at the master cylinder when we replaced it.. I'll double check those connections...

but here's an update... I had a spare battery that i knew had power in it, so I hooked it up via a set of jumper cables in series (just + to +, and - to -) to the current battery... turned the key, and it started up first time...

now, without that battery connected, startup is sporatic. I'll turn the key, and *nothing* will happen... but then I'll turn it off and on again, and it will start right up..... leading me to believe it never was a battery problem, but either a problem with the wires that carson explained.... or a problem with the ignition switch in the steering wheel column...

any other thoughts?

carsonmx114 · 08-04-2005, 07:28 PM

ignition switch sounds like a likely candidate. if you wiggle the key while the car is running can you make the engine die without actually turning the key off?

Eldorado · 08-04-2005, 09:40 PM

good question... I'll check in the morning... along with those wires you talked about earlier.

*if* I find that it's the ignition switch, how hard is it to get in there and dig it out? hmm.. *heads on over to clarks to see if he has an article*

alex.rhodes · 08-05-2005, 06:07 AM

you said you messed with the engine grounds right? The ones on the block by the firewall which happen to be right nearby the reference sensor?..... might want to check that those are tight and all.

Eldorado · 08-05-2005, 10:19 AM

nope, not the grounds..
we messed with the wire harness that runs across the top of the brake booster and master cylinder.

Eldorado · 08-11-2005, 12:28 PM

update...

it hasn't done it since... until today.

I did the same trick i did before - got out the spare battery that i know has a charge... hooked it up, and turned the key.. this time it has no effect. Also it doesn't click or anything when i turn the key, therefore i conclude that it's not a battery problem.

the solonoid wires (red and blue) running across the top of the brake booster was detatched and cleaned... I reattached it to no avail.

Does it make sense that both times this has happened, it's been hotter than hell outside? like 40 degrees C or so with humidity? Would low oil pressure cause this? i dont see why not, but when i turn the key the gague goes barely to 1... the gague i know isn't always accurate, and my car is due for an oil change, but I'm reluctant to think this is the cause of the problem....

to make a test light, do I just bare the wires with a light bulb socket on it and join it into the circuit?

any other thoughts?

stampedetrail · 08-11-2005, 01:00 PM

I had a wierd mysterious intermittant no start problem about a month ago -- turned out that the ground from the starter to the block was not good enough. removed the starter, sanded the surfaces, rebolted it on with a custom extra ground wire to the starter body, and it solved the problem.

Eldorado · 08-11-2005, 01:07 PM

sounds like the starter ground might be a possible candidate.. we removed the starter to get at the slave... maybe the ground wasn't re-attached properly..

how did you determine the problem?

stampedetrail · 08-12-2005, 02:56 PM

simulated failure mode: removed starter, attached all wires, insulated from ground, turned key. Actually I think it gave a very faint click. Then grounded it (just sitting on the valve cover) & tried it, starter motor worked. If you think it might be the case, you could try attaching a ground from the starter body to the neg. batt terminal like I did, and/or remove it & shine up the block connection suface thingy.

Eldorado · 08-12-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stampedetrail
... block connection suface thingy.

technical term, hmm?

I'll check it out... i dont have ramps or jack stands available at the moment.. but my buddy does and I'll get it over there in a few days...

carsonmx114 · 08-12-2005, 05:06 PM

i bet it's not the starter ground as much as the engine ground. the chances of a starter that's bolted onto a engine with two large bolts not making connection with the engine are slim. when stampedetrail grounded his starter he also grounded his engine, you can do the same thing by replaceing or repairing your ground wire connection to the engine. it's hard to get to and you may need a universal socket but that will most likely fix your problem. the ground on my car comes directly off the battery negative post to the bellhouseing.

Eldorado · 10:56 AM

Update:

I notice the car starts when it gets cooler outside (evenings are no problems at all..)

I tried Wilk's "home made remote starter" that he posted about a while ago - with no success.

the starter isn't bolted to the engine is it? the starter is underneath the car, under the slave cylinder for the clutch...

I've noticed when I turn the key, I hear a faint click coming from the driver's footwell.... just to the right of the DME...

and when i do turn the key to the AUX position.... the lights on the dash come on.. and when i attempt to turn it over, those lights dim slightly, so that leads me to think that the ignition switch is making *some* sort of connection......

anyone got anymore thoughts on this?

where is the main engine ground? is it possible to make another ground like you have, carson, coming directly off of the battery -'ve terminal?

Slam · 08-25-2005, 11:07 AM

Starter is bolted to bellhousing which is bolted to back of engine, so starter is bolted to engine. Replace engine ground with new cable and rule it out. Replace battery with new battery and rule that out. Push start car and try to kill it by wiggling key. Rule that out. Click in footwell s/b relay not part of starting circuit. Replace starter or bench test it and rule that out. And so on and so forth. Being methodical is the best approach.

When mine decided to do this to me the battery was going south. A dead or dying battery can cause all sorts of problems that masquerade as other things.

Eldorado · 08-25-2005, 11:49 AM

ruled out starter by wiggling the key while started... so it probably isn't the starter..
i jumped the car with no success or change... ruled out battery...

what's an s/b relay?

can i ground the engine simply by going from the -'ve terminal of the battery to the bellhousing like carson did?

is it time to change the socks?