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gadgit's Avatar
 
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Unhappy Clutch, pump, belts, etc

Fanaly got the car (944S2 89) to the specialist to check the play on the trans.

Bad news, clutch gone (well the rubber ring anyway) so its a new clutch to be fitted next week. He's a nice bloke and took me underneath and showed me the play in the drive shaft.

My ongoing saga with the squeeling at the front appears to be down to the water pump or the last few pulleys, which is either of the adjuster pulleys. I've done everything else in there and not found it.

Just need some final advice on what the specialist has said I ought to do.

1/
He is saying that as the car has done 96,000 miles it could well be the pump, but, he says as the car has never had a replacement, it should be done anyway as they say they advise all there customers to replace them at 100,000.

2/
He also says that due to the noise, and the possibility that it is a pulley, which could be the cam belt, that I should have both the belts changed with the adjuster pulleys.
This he says, combined with the new clutch and water pump will give me piece of mind.

3/
He also has done me a tripple discount for having all the work done at the same time, which he says if I went to a main dealer would be the price just for the clutch?

This would be a cash payment and fully stamped up in the service book, and all for around 1250 for the lot! thats everything!
I reckon thats a good deal, and they are a well respected Porsche specialist!!

Should I go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ro lleyes:
Old 01-06-2006, 01:31 PM
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That's a good price. About $1,900 US. Make sure he puts a spring center clutch disk in and not another rubber center.
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Old 01-06-2006, 01:41 PM
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While I agree that the price is definitely right for what's being done, and that the as long as you're in for the labor on the pump you should put new belts and rollers on (belts and rollers are dirt cheap compared to the labor necessary to get at them), I am very curious as to how he showed you the play in the driveshaft from under the car. The shaft between the engine and transaxle is completely enclosed within the torque tube IIRC. It's been a long while since I've dropped a 944 tranny though, so I could be forgetting an access hole or something.
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Old 01-06-2006, 01:50 PM
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The access hole is in the diff. you take of a plate and get hold of the shaft, if you can turn it back and forth about a 1/4 turn its knackered (the clutch plate rubber centre that is)

We don't seem to have got the spring version over here, but he says the rubber should last 40-50k with no problems, and gives a far better drive.
Old 01-06-2006, 02:16 PM
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Since all of the clutch disks come out of Germany I'm a bit surprized you can't get any.

Our parts supply catalogs over here don't have the rubber center listed.

Also make sure you replace the pilot as well as the throw out bearing.
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Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
Never break more than you fix!
Old 01-06-2006, 02:19 PM
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Will do, thanks Socal.
Old 01-06-2006, 02:32 PM
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Re: Clutch, pump, belts, etc

Quote:
Originally posted by gadgit
Fanaly got the car (944S2 89) to the specialist to check the play on the trans.

Bad news, clutch gone (well the rubber ring anyway) so its a new clutch to be fitted next week. He's a nice bloke and took me underneath and showed me the play in the drive shaft.

My ongoing saga with the squeeling at the front appears to be down to the water pump or the last few pulleys, which is either of the adjuster pulleys. I've done everything else in there and not found it.

Just need some final advice on what the specialist has said I ought to do.

1/
He is saying that as the car has done 96,000 miles it could well be the pump, but, he says as the car has never had a replacement, it should be done anyway as they say they advise all there customers to replace them at 100,000.

2/
He also says that due to the noise, and the possibility that it is a pulley, which could be the cam belt, that I should have both the belts changed with the adjuster pulleys.
This he says, combined with the new clutch and water pump will give me piece of mind.

3/
He also has done me a tripple discount for having all the work done at the same time, which he says if I went to a main dealer would be the price just for the clutch?

This would be a cash payment and fully stamped up in the service book, and all for around 1250 for the lot! thats everything!
I reckon thats a good deal, and they are a well respected Porsche specialist!!

Should I go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ro lleyes:
That IS a good price. Dick Lovetts of Swindon quoted me almost 1,000 just to do the cam and balance belts. Unsurprisingly I'm letting Autofarm do them for 300.
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1983 944 Lux (manual) 2.5 litre 8 valve na and no pas

1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."
Old 01-06-2006, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gadgit
We don't seem to have got the spring version over here, but he says the rubber should last 40-50k with no problems, and gives a far better drive.
Have you tried Porscheshop? They sell all manner of performance clutches. They sell to trade so maybe your man could get one via them?www.porscheshop.co.uk
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1983 944 Lux (manual) 2.5 litre 8 valve na and no pas

1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."

Last edited by Dark Skies; 01-06-2006 at 04:09 PM..
Old 01-06-2006, 04:05 PM
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The rubber center (or centre if you are English) has been discontinued.

The UK price you have is good. I would get it in writing first, however and check that everything discussed is included.

The clutch should include the clutch kit, crank oil seal, flywheel bolts(9), flywheel machining (if necessary) pressure plate bolts(9), release lever shaft and bearings (2), release bearing guide tube and possibly 12 cv bolts.
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Old 01-06-2006, 08:18 PM
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I presume the throw out bearing, is the release bearing in English ?

The Pilot bearing ? is that the crank oil seal/bearing where the drive shaft fits into the engine?

I think the garage said its a fuch's clutch (which they had on the original?) is that a good clutch. I believe he said the trade price for the clutch is 280.
Old 01-07-2006, 06:41 AM
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i thought the original was still made by sachs, they just changed the design to a spring center (my old pressure plate has sachs stamped on it) and yes, you are correct on the throw out bearing/ release bearing, and pilot bearing
Old 01-07-2006, 07:05 AM
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My mistake, I think he did say it was a sachs one.
Old 01-07-2006, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gadgit
I presume the throw out bearing, is the release bearing in English ?
Actually it's the direction one takes when the bar closes and they toss you out the door.
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Hugh - So Cal 83 944 Driver Person
NOT a 'real' Porsche -- Its Better!!!!
When was the last time you changed your timing and balance belts and/or cam chain and tensioner?
New Users please add your car's year and model to your signature line!
Never break more than you fix!
Old 01-07-2006, 07:40 AM
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I see there's a few Brits on here. Are any of you into ice hockey ?? Just curious to see if any of you are because my brother played there for quite a few years and was sort of a British Gretzky ...Telford,Solihull,Richmond and a few others. I played in Telford for a year as well...yahoo a day with no car troubles so I thought i would post this...Have a good weekend everyone
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gadgit
The access hole is in the diff. you take of a plate and get hold of the shaft, if you can turn it back and forth about a 1/4 turn its knackered (the clutch plate rubber centre that is)

We don't seem to have got the spring version over here, but he says the rubber should last 40-50k with no problems, and gives a far better drive.
Ahh! Right, right, I'd forgotten about that access plug to the coupling near the transaxle.

I'm going to give another recommendation on finding a spring-center clutch. The longevity is a huge benefit as the friction material on a 944 clutch can last 150,000 miles. Just seems silly to me to replace it at half that (or less) because the center took a digger.

As far as the rubber center giving a better drive, I replaced the stock rubber center clutch (date stamped 1986, replaced in 2004, 150,000 miles, plenty of friction material left, but the center had been dead for the whole year I'd owned it and god only knows how long for the previous owner, probably since they'd owned it too) in my 924S with a spring-cented SACHS disk and I have to say that the spring-center was vastly superior. I thought it was much smoother. Honestly, nearly every other car out there uses a spring center for its clutch, how many of them have you thought were inadequate? And there's your answer.

Go with the spring-center. If your mechanic won't get one for whatever reason, buy one through Pelican or another respected internet parts house if shipping across the pond is prohibitive.
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Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 01-07-2006, 10:27 AM
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Can you fit a spring centre plate as a direct replacement for the rubber one, or would you have to buy a whole set up that included the spring plate. ?
Old 01-07-2006, 12:34 PM
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Hi Gadgit, how about a name to this specialist, might be a useful contact in the future, incidentally, although it depends on many things, my rubber centred clutch lasted 80k, which I thought was pretty good.
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Old 01-07-2006, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gadgit
Can you fit a spring centre plate as a direct replacement for the rubber one, or would you have to buy a whole set up that included the spring plate. ?
The spring center clutch is a direct, drop-in replacement. It requires no additional parts or modifications to work perfectly.

Every clutch replacement does need to have the pressure plate replaced and the flywheel at least re-finished. Any shop trying to sell you a clutch job without replacing the pressure plate and refinishing the flywheel should not be allowed to work on cars. For that matter, if they recommend no replacing the throw-out bearing (release bearing in the UK) they shouldn't be working on cars. Other things could be optional but those three (release bearing, flywheel re-surface, and new pressure plate) are absolutely essential.
__________________
Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 01-07-2006, 01:30 PM
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Jobs being done next week so I'll get back with a name and recommendation, or not!!

Last edited by gadgit; 01-08-2006 at 02:25 AM..
Old 01-08-2006, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AaronM
The spring center clutch is a direct, drop-in replacement. It requires no additional parts or modifications to work perfectly.

Every clutch replacement does need to have the pressure plate replaced and the flywheel at least re-finished. Any shop trying to sell you a clutch job without replacing the pressure plate and refinishing the flywheel should not be allowed to work on cars. For that matter, if they recommend no replacing the throw-out bearing (release bearing in the UK) they shouldn't be working on cars. Other things could be optional but those three (release bearing, flywheel re-surface, and new pressure plate) are absolutely essential.
Is this true? The refinishing of the flywheel, I mean. I've done numerous clutch replacements on other cars and, after examining the surface to check for scoring or blued areas caused by overheating, happily put on a new clutch with no problems whatsoever (after using a proper alignment tool, obviously)
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1983 944 Lux (manual) 2.5 litre 8 valve na and no pas

1991 944 (automatic) 2.7 litre 16 valve na and pas

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."
Old 01-08-2006, 02:33 AM
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