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-   -   Origin of design (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/259777-origin-design.html)

Moneyguy1 01-07-2006 06:51 PM

Origin of design
 
Raymond Lowey was on to something in the 50s with the 1953 Studebaker Commander 2 door coupe. I was suprised when I found one I could look at critically. From the side, the top and especially the window design with the apparently odd shape of the little rear window looks amazingly like the 944!!. If you look at the sillouette and imagine the pop-up headlights (which lower the fender curve) and the slant back 944 glass rather than the notchback, it is amazing how close they are in fundamental body design. THe 944 with the rear glass removed proves the point.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting...

bryanthompson 01-07-2006 06:57 PM

Did you take any pics? It does sound interesting, and I love Studebakers of all kinds. They are manly cars (and trucks).

Moneyguy1 01-07-2006 07:05 PM

The 1953-55 were considered some of the most beautiful American autos ever designed. There are a lot of pics on some Studebaker sites. I did find some by the simple search :1953 Studebaker Commander coupe".

P.S. their V-8 had a top speed of only 93 MPH!! How things have changed.

I was thinking even the front headlights and low sloping hood look remarkably like a 911!!

Panzer909 01-07-2006 07:18 PM

Do you really think? I just dunno:http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1136693908.jpg

Techno Duck 01-07-2006 08:10 PM

I would say the car was gear limited to 93mph. I doubt that V8 was restricted to that.

My friend has a '67 Mustang, 3-speed manual. 3 gears of acceleration. His tach never worked on the car, so frankly we have no idea what RPM's he shifts at (when the engine is really loud he shifts, otherwise its just loud all the time). Anyway i wouldnt even want to think about what that car sits at crusing at highway speeds, let alone your 'normal' non-rush our highway speed of 65+ mph.

AaronM 01-07-2006 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
I would say the car was gear limited to 93mph. I doubt that V8 was restricted to that.

My friend has a '67 Mustang, 3-speed manual. 3 gears of acceleration. His tach never worked on the car, so frankly we have no idea what RPM's he shifts at (when the engine is really loud he shifts, otherwise its just loud all the time). Anyway i wouldnt even want to think about what that car sits at crusing at highway speeds, let alone your 'normal' non-rush our highway speed of 65+ mph.

No, that Studebaker is aerodynamically limited to ~93. Remember, back then the V8's weren't that potent even without taking into consideration that they were rated at gross HP, not net HP (a "200 hp" engine from the '60s is roughly comparable to a 150 hp engine in today's rating system). So a Mustang with the stock 289 (in its day a fairly "hot" engine even in non-Hi-Po form) was operating with roughly the same net horsepower as a 944 N/A. Except that the old Mustangs were much, much poorer aerodynamic shapes.

That Studebaker (assuming the 232 CID V8, a reasonable assumption for '53, the larger 289 would not come until the later 1960's Studebakers) was rated in the area of 120 hp gross, which puts it at less than 100 hp net. Since that's a crank rating and the older drivetrains aren't terribly efficient, we're probably talking about 80 hp at the wheels when it's all said and done. If we're feeling generous. With the aerodynamics of that car (despite the looks, I'd estimate a Cd of at least .35, probably .4, and an absolutely massive frontal area) and the engine output that 93 mph is most definitely _not_ gear limited. I'd guess that with a 3-speed automatic it is probably turning less than 2,500 RPM at 65 mph. Doesn't sound like much, but redline was likely around 4,500 RPM, so it's relatively high-revving.

I drove a Mustang with a 3-speed and a 390 V8 once. Damn fine car. Almost bought it instead of the 951.

Moneyguy1 01-08-2006 06:59 AM

Cd was .41

HP was 120 gross
Torque 190 ft-lbs
0-60 17 sec
1/4 mi 20 sec

Not exactly a rocket by today's standards!! (You should see the figures for the six!! 169 cu.in., 85 HP @ 4k, 138 ft-lb at 2.4k )

Think about what was available at the time...Chevy only had a six, Ford still had flatheads, Chrysler had some interesting engines, though....As for looks, the rest of the manufacturers made Studebaker look 50 years ahead of its time. Their ability to use curves and edges like Porsche that taken alone do not seem to go together says something for Raymond Lowey. The sum is far greater than the individual parts.

nynor 01-08-2006 10:52 AM

i had a '66 mustang, 289, c4 auto, some exhaust work, i took it to 115 and it was still pulling. from 80MPH, punching it would sink you into the seat.

herdman 01-08-2006 01:12 PM

I raced a Jag XJ-12. Pulled away on the straight and took the corner at 135 mph. He wasnt smiling when I slowed up when the race was over and he caught up with me. My 1968 289cid mustang was still in the primer and didnt look that impressive. Larry

..P 01-08-2006 02:41 PM

When I was a student at Penn State back in the early 1970's, my architectural design lab professor was using the 53 Studebaker as a design milestone. Just think of all the cool cars that were built since then, and the 53 Studebaker is still a design milestone, very clean, and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of it's time. If you look at the rest of the cars being built in the US back then, most all of them looked like a shoe-box with headlights and a giant chrome battering ram on the front. Having a Studebaker back then would have put you into pretty cool territory, socially and image-wise, eh?

P

AaronM 01-08-2006 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Cd was .41

HP was 120 gross
Torque 190 ft-lbs
0-60 17 sec
1/4 mi 20 sec

Not exactly a rocket by today's standards!! (You should see the figures for the six!! 169 cu.in., 85 HP @ 4k, 138 ft-lb at 2.4k )

Think about what was available at the time...Chevy only had a six, Ford still had flatheads, Chrysler had some interesting engines, though....As for looks, the rest of the manufacturers made Studebaker look 50 years ahead of its time. Their ability to use curves and edges like Porsche that taken alone do not seem to go together says something for Raymond Lowey. The sum is far greater than the individual parts.

Glad that I wasn't too far off the mark on my guesses. :) Only bit I looked up was the HP number.


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