What's my major malfunction here?

VaSteve · 03-25-2006, 10:20 AM

I'm conducting the autopsy of my 944 that may/may not have spun a bearing or done some other nasty stuff. I am following the directions on Clark's and Paragon to access the oil pan. So far I have done the following major things:

- Removed fuel rail, etc.
- Removed manifold
- Removed spark plugs
- Dumped oil
- Transmission is in nuetral

I looked into the intakes and could see the cylinders. I figured I could crank the engine around by hand and look in all the cylinders through the intakes, but I can't turn it

I recall being able to turn it by hand when I did the belts in January. The plugs were in then. I figure this would spin really easily.

What I am missing? Is it the starter? (I never removed it) I wouldn't figure it would be since the starter is in when the car is running. Maybe I've sniffed too much gas today, help me out.
Thanks!

nynor · 03-25-2006, 10:24 AM

have you tried it with a wrench? what did you find in your oil? i think i saw a picture in a different post of a piece of metal... did you find anything else?

BananaClip · 03-25-2006, 10:24 AM

Before you start worrying, make sure it's not in gear. It always seems like a simple mistake when someone can't turn their engine by hand.

VaSteve · 03-25-2006, 11:11 AM

It's not in gear. I was turning it with a 24mm wrench on the crank. I'm sure it's something simple I've forgotten...

nynor · 03-25-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VaSteve
It's not in gear. I was turning it with a 24mm wrench on the crank. I'm sure it's something simple I've forgotten...

it should turn. how much muscle did you put behind it?

VaSteve · 03-25-2006, 12:04 PM

Not my whole body, but more than enough to turn an engine with no plugs in it.

oh, ajajajajaj!

nynor · 03-25-2006, 12:14 PM

will the starter turn it over?

VaSteve · 03-25-2006, 04:48 PM

Don't know. It's all apart now, I'm not going that route.

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

Turning it over with the starter shouldn't hurt it UNLESS you have taken the belts off. The question I have though is IF you are going to look at the rod bearings, why are you taking it apart on the top? Shouldn't you be trying to take the oil pan off? Starter will NOT affect the turning of the engine. My guess is that whatever is damaged is now binding which is what caused the knock. Did you try turning it the opposite direction and then turn it back? It shouldn't hurt anything to turn it backward, so give that a try.

VaSteve · 05:08 AM

The way the directions are written (or I missed it) is that you have take the top apart for a turbo. Mine's not a turbo. I guess reading the directions 50 times, I missed the fact I could skip a bunch of work.

I used this as a start:
http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?page=index_v2&id=70&c=4

Of course, right in there it says it's for a Turbo car.

I tried turning both ways, no dice. When I get some more time this week, I'll finish pulling the pan.

yieldsign2 · 03-26-2006, 06:27 AM

well, the oil pan is on the bottom on all the cars... So I don't know why it would tell you to take apart the top stuff... You need to lower the crossmember (while supporting the engine with a hoist) and unbolt the pan.

Granite 944 · 05:59 PM

Well........I'm totally LOST......as far as WHAT your trying to do, and WHY. Maybe you could give us all a little more background info as to what it is you REALLY got in mind, and are planning on doing?

An "autopsy" (sp), to me, is not just willy-nilly tearing an engine apart for the hell of it. Whats up? You really wanna do rod bearings.........drop the engine out, put it on a stand, and do it correctly. Unless, of course......ya wanna bust your butt.

Ohh......yeah........I saw this in your sig.

"Guards red is for the unoriginal."

I think, your pushing some buttons here...........butt........I likey!

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

I think that guide tells you to remove the intake manifold on the 951 because its the only way you can get the one piececross over pipe off on the turbo. This is also why the clutch job takes an extra 2-4 hours on cars that dont have the two piece cross over.

You have no reason to remove the intake manifold or even fuel rail on a N/A car, or any 951 with a two piece crossover pipe. Something you might consider while changing the rod bearings is going with a 3-pc crossmember. In the event you ever need to take the oil pan off again, you will save yourself the trouble of needing another wheel alignment and having to remove the control arms all over again.

VaSteve · 03-27-2006, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Granite 944
Well........I'm totally LOST......as far as WHAT your trying to do, and WHY. Maybe you could give us all a little more background info as to what it is you REALLY got in mind, and are planning on doing?

I was switching back and forth between the Clarks and Paragon directions and got my self confused through out the process (Paragon's directions are for a Turbo, Clarks for an n/a). I was questioning all the while, why I was taking off the intakes....

This autopsy is to inspect the rod bearings because I think I spun one. Basically, I wasted 3 hours of work for nothing.

Hopefully, I can get to it tonight.

TDuck: Where do you buy the 3 piece cross member?

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

VaSteve, ive heard of people making them..but honestly i dont have that kind of ingeniutiy or the tools or equipment to do it. I know that Lindsey Racing sells one..a bit pricey..but you will save yourself alot of trouble if

A. The new oil pan gasket leaks
B. You ever spin another rod bearing (knock on wood)
C. For any reason the oil pan needs to come off again in general.

http://www.lindseyracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LR&Category_Code=944CROSSMEMBER

Other places might sell it, but i dont know of any. Let us know if you do happen to find other places.

chapstic2001 · 03-28-2006, 12:17 PM

Hopefully you are trying to turn the engine over with the cam belt still on. Otherwise you are shooving the pistons into the the valves. The only thing that jumps to mind is would be the cylinder pressure (but you removed the spark plugs and intake) or you have the flywheel lock in place (buy you state you have not removed the starter.)

You didn't happen to have dropped anything down the little hole in the back of the engine bellhousing? If a nut or bolt made it down there, it is possible it is jammed between the starter and "the big wheel with the teeth" (I am drawing a complete blank on the part). It may not hurt to take off the starter to double check.

For what is worth, I asked Dulles Motor Sports about why Clarks would recommend taking off the fuel rail, intake and other topside components to access the oil pan and they had no idea. DMS has done numerous oil pan gaskets and has never had to remove those parts.

.........I am curious.

chapstic2001 · 03-28-2006, 12:18 PM

The flywheel that is the tuner name for "the big wheel with the teeth"

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

Again, Clarks-Garage states the intake manifold must be removed ONLY if you are changing the oil pan gasket on a 944 Turbo with a ONE piece crossover pipe.

chapstic2001 · 03-28-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
Again, Clarks-Garage states the intake manifold must be removed ONLY if you are changing the oil pan gasket on a 944 Turbo with a ONE piece crossover pipe.

That still does not make sense to me. The one piece crossover pipe can be taken off at the turbo down pipe and exhaust manifold. There should be no need to remove the intake.

VASteve, I am probably local and may be able to help out some time. I am looking at replacing my oil pan gasket this upcoming winter.

VaSteve · 03-28-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
Again, Clarks-Garage states the intake manifold must be removed ONLY if you are changing the oil pan gasket on a 944 Turbo with a ONE piece crossover pipe.

I can't read is why. I read clarks 100 times, then someone sent me the Paragon link, which has a nice photo of the wood bracing. Since I like the photos, I used those directions. Not realzing that it said it was for a Turbo only once and in small letters

I just skipped right to the actual steps. I'm a bonehead is all.

FWIW, I was able to turn the engine by hand last night. Just needed a little more force. (Cam belt of course is still on). More force than I should have to use for an engine with no compression.

Still trying to get the tie rods off. Going to get the gear puller on the way home. One of the boots literally turned to dust when I touched it last night.