CJ's car - Hard shifting

[MikeCT]

Hey all, this is CJFusco posting on MikeCT's computer...

well, a few of you might remember that a few weeks ago I complained about sloppy/hard shifting. I did the FRWilk 'quick fix' (drilled and sleeved shift lever assembly) - the shifter was less "sloppy," but still diffucult to get into 1st, 2nd, and reverse; we just finished changing the gearbox oil - now the car shifts smooth as silk when you are driving, but it's STILL a b!tch getting the gearbox into 1st, 2nd, and ESPECIALLY reverse when you are at rest.

So I guess it must be the shift link at the back of the car. I looked back there, and there is quite a bit of play... but I have no idea what bolts need to be tightened or anything like that. Everything feels tight to the touch. Any help would be needed.

[MikeCT]

addendum:

car shifts fine into all gears when the engine isn't running.

[MikeCT]

what makes you say that?

and is there anything I can do about it, short of going to the mechanic's and writing a check?

[MikeCT]

edit -- it now appears that the car does not want to go into reverse whether the car is running or not.

[mike944]

Difficulty shifting into reverse when the engine is off, that's normal.

The rest of your paoblem is starting to sound like your clutch is not disengaging fully. Have you bled you clutch system recently? anything "funny" with the clutch pedal? have you replaced the clutch master/slave recently?

[mike944]

Difficulty shifting into reverse when the engine is off, that's normal.

The rest of your problem is starting to sound like your clutch is not disengaging fully. Have you bled you clutch system recently? anything "funny" with the clutch pedal? have you replaced the clutch master/slave recently?

[MikeCT]

CJ here again...

far as I can tell, the last time any of the clutch system fluids were changed were when the clutch was replaced last summer. I have not replaced the master or slave since I have owned the car.

The clutch pedal itself feels fine. When the engine is off, the gearlever slots into any gear with a fair amount of ease, except for reverse, which it sometimes slides into easily and sometimes doesn't. When the engine is running, it is hard to get into first, nearly impossible to get into reverse (it makes a kind of humming sound when you try to put pressure on the gearshift where reverse would be). Once you start driving in 1st, you can shift into 2nd gear okay (there is a little difficulty, but not bad) and then the car seems to slot into 3rd or 4th with no problem at all (haven't tried 5th yet). The only gearchange that gets a little tougher is a downshift into 2nd.

Come to a rest and the car once again resists attempts to shift into 1st and 2nd. Shut the car off, and it will go into 1st or 2nd with no problem at all.

I am still planning on going to the car show tomorrow (shouldn't be an issue unless someone wants to see me do a k-turn)... perhaps I can demonstrate the problem for you (mike944) then?

I can theoretically do a clutch system bleed later this week, assuming MikeCT wants to put up with my car's ***** again....

[MikeCT]

Originally posted by MikeCT

I can theoretically do a clutch system bleed later this week, assuming MikeCT wants to put up with my car's ***** again....

No problem, hopefully you get a day off that coincides with a day I get out of work at a resonable time in the evening.

[CJFusco]

if anyone else has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. This problem seems to come, get better, come back... weird stuff

do you guys think a clutch fluid change might actually cure the problem?

[mike944]

Definitely sounds like your clutch is not releasing fully. The clutch hydraulic system is just one possible cause.

does your clutch pedal vibrate when you put just put light pressure on it? Just enough pressure to take the slack out of the clutch mechanism, but not enough pressure to release the clutch. could be bad throwout bearing, or anything in the throwout mechanism.

I don't think i'm going to make it tonight.

[CJFusco]

clutch pedal doesn't do anything weird; no sounds, no vibrations

[SoCal Driver]

Gesh. How many times do you have to be told;

IT"S THE CLUTCH!!!

Could have fractured and/or bent clutch fork finges. Could be insufficent clutch release movement -- master, slave or other.

But!!!

IT's THE CLUTCH!!!!

[CJFusco]

fine.

But what I want to know is how to narrow down the specific problem, and I think Mike has been trying to help me do so... which is why I keep asking questions instead of just writing checks.

If I brought it to the mechanic and said "IT'S THE CLUTCH!", I think I may be looking at an unnecessarily large bill... if I give more information and people on Pelican can help out, then I might be able to ascertain that the problem is, for example, clutch fluid-related and save myself a few hundred dollars.

patience is a virtue, Hugh.

[SoCal Driver]

Pull the starter and take a long look at the clutch fork/lever as some one presses in the clutch pedal.

Also check for chunks of rubber from the center section of the clutch disk coming apart.

OR...

With the clutch pushed in and the trans out of gear reach into the housing on the trans and see if you can spin the drive shaft by hand. If there is drag it's the clutch (see above).

[fast924S]

CJ, I would also check to make sure the lock screw that holds the shift rod to the shift linkage on the tranny is tight and in the right place. if its loose it will caue play and poor alignment of the linkage when shifting

[CJFusco]

Thanks for the help in troubleshooting this, guys

Originally posted by SoCal Driver
Also check for chunks of rubber from the center section of the clutch disk coming apart.

I have a spring-centered disk, which replaced the original rubber-centered item last summer.

Originally posted by fast924S
CJ, I would also check to make sure the lock screw that holds the shift rod to the shift linkage on the tranny is tight and in the right place. if its loose it will caue play and poor alignment of the linkage when shifting

If you mean this thing that the arrow is pointing to (pic courtesy of Clark's Garage):


then, yes, the bolt was a little loose when I inspected the rear of the car. I tightened it a little (didn't want to over-crank it) while it was in neutral. Seemed to only make a difference in the shift lever's "jiggle" - left-to-right play in neutral.

Should I re-loosen this bolt/screw and retighten it in a different position?

[SoCal Driver]

So because it's a spring center doesn't mean you ignore the rest of what I've suggested.

Even a spring center can warp and/or throw spings or part of it's pressure material. The pressure plate and flywheel can warp too. Also the pilot bearing may be going out and causing the drive shaft to spin even if the clutch disk is not dragging.

Reaching in and spining the drive shaft with someone pressing the clutch in will eliminate that part of the drive system.

[mike944]

when you had the clutch done, did you replace the throwout bearing, and the needle bearings on the release fork?

[fast924S]

Noper wrong bolt, There is a shaft that runs from the shifter to the linkage at the rear off the car, The shaft slides into a sleeve that is connected to the shift linkage, There should be a bolt the hold the shaft and the sleeve together. If I get a chance this weekend I will post pics

[CJFusco]

Originally posted by SoCal Driver
So because it's a spring center doesn't mean you ignore the rest of what I've suggested.

Even a spring center can warp and/or throw spings or part of it's pressure material. The pressure plate and flywheel can warp too. Also the pilot bearing may be going out and causing the drive shaft to spin even if the clutch disk is not dragging.

Reaching in and spining the drive shaft with someone pressing the clutch in will eliminate that part of the drive system.

Do you mean the inspection hole that is open on the housing? If so, I will try this tomorrow night or whenever I have a free minute or so.

Originally posted by mike944
when you had the clutch done, did you replace the throwout bearing, and the needle bearings on the release fork?

Clutch kit was a disk, pressure plate, and throwout bearing. Not sure about the release fork.

Originally posted by fast924S
Noper wrong bolt, There is a shaft that runs from the shifter to the linkage at the rear off the car, The shaft slides into a sleeve that is connected to the shift linkage, There should be a bolt the hold the shaft and the sleeve together. If I get a chance this weekend I will post pics

Is it visible in the pic I posted? If not, does Clark's garage have a picture of it?