951 oil pan Help

dreddybear · 05-05-2006, 07:05 PM

I have an 86 944t. The oil pan is leaking a bit. Black Forest in san Diego quoted me 1600$ to do a new seal. I know the crossover is a pain, but is that too much?

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

More than I would pay. But I have no idea how many hours the book says it takes. Are you sure they were not talking about a rear main seal which is around the oil pan? If it's the rear main, that's probably a pretty fair price.

dreddybear · 05-05-2006, 09:26 PM

No just the gasket. They said it takes 16 hours, but my buddy says after doing them all the time, his shop does it in six. He happens to be on the other side of the country so it looks like I'm doing it myself. I'm no novice, I just REALLY don't want to do it. I've heard some wide variations on the timeframe though...

Steve Schubert · 05-06-2006, 05:16 AM

I paid $1800 when I first got my car, for the pan gasket to be replaced. Check the motor mounts while your in there, I need one. Also the front end has to be realinged. All this added up to $$$$$.

Slam · 05-06-2006, 07:09 AM

At that price, have the rod bearings and motor mounts done as a matter of course. Most of the cost is time to get to the pan in the first place!

dreddybear · 05:01 PM

Just so y'all know, 1800$ IS a ridiculous price. It's becoming increasingly clear to me that some Porsche mechanics think that they are something special. I did the job in seven hours, and that includes the time it took me to fabricate and weld a hinged baffle for the oil pan. Most Porsche owners don't have the knowledge or resources to work on their own cars, and I think some of these porsche shops are charging top price to do these repairs. Just because the "book" says it takes ten hours to do a job, doesn't mean it takes the mechanic, who's done fifty of these jobs, ten hours. For example, When Ford's new sleek and sexy performance car, The Tempo, was introduced, It had a poorly designed rear main seal. Ford issued a recall and all new Tempos got a redesigned replacement. At that time, Ford would pay their mechanics ten book hours per car, regardless of the total time. The mechanics got used to the job after a couple cars and would churn out two or three per day, getting paid for twenty or thirty hours worth of work. I know a Tempo is not a Porsche, but the concept is the same. It does NOT take an experienced mechanic, with power tools and a lift, factory book hours to make a repair. Not even close. I've never done this job before and it took me seven. I could see someone doing it in five or less. I guess if this was a chevy, but the design was the same, it would cost 500$ at the most. But it's a Porsche, and you're being charged accordingly. I just hate seeing people unfairly treated by their mechanics. A few months ago my fiance's father took his car in for an alignment. He has a Mustang. This car has a straight rear axle. He was charged for REAR CAMBER and CASTER ADJUSTMENTS. I about took this guys head off. Her father was refunded all of his money, and the guy closed shop a few months later, but he's still probably ripping people off somewhere else. A lot of mechanics think that because most people don't know what's going on with their car, they can pad the bill with extra labor hours. Very Sad.

Steve Schubert · 05-07-2006, 03:44 PM

That was my first mistake when I first bought the car, paying $1800 for the pan gasket replacement. After that I got smart and started doing the work myself.

AaronM · 05-07-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreddybear
No just the gasket. They said it takes 16 hours, but my buddy says after doing them all the time, his shop does it in six. He happens to be on the other side of the country so it looks like I'm doing it myself. I'm no novice, I just REALLY don't want to do it. I've heard some wide variations on the timeframe though...

An '87 or later turbo has a two-piece crossover, and that would indeed be a 6 hour or so job.

The '86, however, has a single piece crossover, which means that in order to get the crossover pipe off the car, it must be un-bolted from the turbo housing, which requires removing the intake manifold as well. The quote that you have for replacement on an '86 is not out of line.

To the guy who said that mechanics are over-charging by going by the book, that's standard industry practice. Every mechanic everywhere charges book rate. Just because Porsche mechanics get 90+ dollars an hour doesn't make them rip-off artists.

dreddybear · 05-07-2006, 05:06 PM

Yes it does. Charging twenty hours (2000$) on a six hour(600$) job is unethical. There is just not enough competition to regulate repair prices on Porsches.

Granite 944 · 05-07-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreddybear
Yes it does. Charging twenty hours (2000$) on a six hour(600$) job is unethical. There is just not enough competition to regulate repair prices on Porsches.

Not to stir the pot here or anything, butt.........if ya really feel this way, maybe ya should start hiring out your time (at 6 hours max.), for this job, and you should make a killing on it (more business than ya know what to do with). Ya think?

NOT!

I agree with AaronM. Some jobs make book time, some don't. No two cars will come out exactly the same as far as time spent. Moral to the story is...........just do it yourself, and NO problem. At least, your not spending the BIG bucks for it, providing one can get thru it by themselfs. AND.........you can only blame yourself when it leaks.........later. See, no problem, you don't have to go after a shop for "waranty work". Maybe thats figured into the price, too?

Its pretty much the same, no matter what the marquee is.

dreddybear · 05-07-2006, 05:42 PM

No pot stirred. You can focus on me and make it seem like I'm a jerk, I don't mind. I just hate seeing good people paying too much money to enjoy their cars. These are wonderful cars. I love mine, it's fun as hell, and I'm not trying offend anyone who owns them. Maybe I will hire out my time...

NOT!

Nothing will tear me away from the classics. If you want your 944 chopped and channeled, then call me. Granite, sorry I made fun of your "NOT!"

AaronM · 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreddybear
Yes it does. Charging twenty hours (2000$) on a six hour(600$) job is unethical. There is just not enough competition to regulate repair prices on Porsches.

Every mechanic everywhere charges the book rate for labor. Every last one. Why do you think that Porsche mechanics should be magically exempt from this?

And I repeat, you have an '86 944 Turbo. The crossover pipe on that is a b*tch. The '86 944 Turbo shop manual time for a clutch job is 23 hours. The time for an '87 or later is 16 hours. The ONLY difference is the one-piece vs two-piece crossover pipe. If it's a 6 hour job on a car with a two-piece pipe, it's a 13 hour job on your car because your car has the on-piece crossover pipe.

Just because some ignorant person posts the shop time for a car that is not the same as yours does not mean that your car takes the same amount of time. There is an extra 7 hours in labor on an '86 in removing the crossover because of the one-piece design. If you can prove that your car has been retrofitted with the later two-piece unit, then you will not have to pay as much because there is 7 hours less labor time involved. Otherwise, face the fact that your car is different.

EDIT: Looking at this again, it's a lot more angry than it should be. I'm running a 101.5 degree fever right now and am a little irritable when I shouldn't be. Sorry about that.

dreddybear · 05-07-2006, 06:30 PM

You're right, It was a *****. Still didn't take that long to do. They're just nuts and bolts man. I'm not ignorant. It just took me seven hours, that's all. Sorry to hear about your fever. The mumps is running around right now. Get it checked out!

AaronM · 05-08-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreddybear
You're right, It was a *****. Still didn't take that long to do. They're just nuts and bolts man. I'm not ignorant. It just took me seven hours, that's all. Sorry to hear about your fever. The mumps is running around right now. Get it checked out!

EDIT: Damn double post.

AaronM · 05-08-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreddybear
You're right, It was a *****. Still didn't take that long to do. They're just nuts and bolts man. I'm not ignorant. It just took me seven hours, that's all. Sorry to hear about your fever. The mumps is running around right now. Get it checked out!

Did you have the one-piece pipe? I'm curious about whether you had to pull the manifold and fuel rail and vacuum lines.

dreddybear · 05-08-2006, 03:20 PM

Yeah, it was a one piece pipe. It helps if you have air tools and a lift. For anyone doing this job themselves, a really useful little guy is an engine brace made for pulling trannys out of front drivers-hondas and such. It braces on the shock towers and supports the engine from above letting you go to town on the crossmember and suspension.

AaronM · 05-08-2006, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreddybear
Yeah, it was a one piece pipe. It helps if you have air tools and a lift. For anyone doing this job themselves, a really useful little guy is an engine brace made for pulling trannys out of front drivers-hondas and such. It braces on the shock towers and supports the engine from above letting you go to town on the crossmember and suspension.

Not bad at all. I know I wouldn't manage it all that fast.