What's Faster

Coop944 · 07-03-2006, 03:52 PM

OK....944 Turbo vs 944S who's the winner..... this might determine what my next 944 will be !!!!

Eldorado · 07-03-2006, 04:58 PM

who is driving?
and what is the course like?

is everything else equal? suspesion, weight, etc?

too many variables. they're both fast. buy the one that best suits you and your pocket book.

Eldorado · 07-03-2006, 05:01 PM

in response to your question i did a little search and came across this *really interesting* website..

http://www.letstorquebhp.com/rwd.asp

check it out... it holds your answer if you're talking about bare numbers...

Dave L · 07-03-2006, 05:16 PM

turbo is faster straight line, in the corners the S may have an advantage because the turbo lag in a corner could produce interesting results. I choose a S because I AutoX. drive both, then decide. but be warned the boost could become addictive.

Dantilla · 07-03-2006, 06:13 PM

An S2 and a 951 turn very similar autocross times around here.

The regular 944S is in a lower class.

I gotta vote for the turbo.

Schumi · 07-03-2006, 09:23 PM

The turbo in most cases but the turbos are 8 valve engines and the S is a 16 valve engine. I have never been around an 944S but I would assume the 16 valve engine runs smoother. IE less vibration and more free-revving. My toyota is a 16 valve 4 and revs much smoother than my 8 valve Porsche but admittively much less fun to hear..... might not be faster but more comfortable to drive in city traffic/daily driver.

jgp0rsche · 07-03-2006, 10:39 PM

definitely the TURBO. I have both vehicles (look at sig). The key would be in accelleration. the TURBO just gains speed too quickly.

AaronM · 07-04-2006, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schumi
The turbo in most cases but the turbos are 8 valve engines and the S is a 16 valve engine. I have never been around an 944S but I would assume the 16 valve engine runs smoother. IE less vibration and more free-revving. My toyota is a 16 valve 4 and revs much smoother than my 8 valve Porsche but admittively much less fun to hear..... might not be faster but more comfortable to drive in city traffic/daily driver.

The number of valves has nothing to do with how smooth the engine is. Check your engine mounts, they're probably shot on your 944 if you're experiencing vibration.

Also, the 944 engine is a 2.5 (or, if you have an '89 2.7) litre engine. This is very large for a 4-cylinder, probably 500-700cc larger than your Toyota's engine, which again tends to increase vibration a little, even when balancer shafts are fitted to counter this.

Displacement, balance shaft design, and engine mounts dictate how smooth an engine is, not the number of valves.

In response to the OP: An S2 will be easier to drive around town because it has more torque at low RPM. My Turbo doesn't really start to come "on" until 2,800 RPM and even then prefers to be above 3,000 RPM for any real acceleration. Starting out in 1st, it feels more sluggish than my old 924S until about 3,000 RPM, at which point it feels like it's been rear-ended by a rocket ship. Keep it above 3,000 RPM and nothing can touch you. Below 3,000 RPM and you're getting embarassed by Geos. (OK, maybe that's a little bit of hyperbole, but you get the idea.)

I like the turbo, the kick when boost comes on is addicting and it is incredibly easy to get to about 300 HP (and 300+ torque) with chips and a boost controller. The only caveat is that you need to be aware of when the boost comes on.

Schumi · 07-04-2006, 09:36 AM

Maybe the word smooth wasn't the best way of escribing this. 'Feel' maybe? I haven't been in an S so maybe the two cars feel exactly the same but I would expect the throttle feeling when revving the engine would 'feel' different. But I'm probably totally wrong.

Dantilla · 07-04-2006, 10:02 AM

I have owned a regular 944, a 944 turbo, and an S2, and have driven a 2.5 S a few times.

No question the turbo is faster than an S. In stock form, the S2 and turbo are suprisingly close in both autocross times, and lap times on track.

The big difference is that for relatively little money (as far as Porsches go), the turbo can be made into an absolute screamer.

AaronM · 07-04-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schumi
Maybe the word smooth wasn't the best way of escribing this. 'Feel' maybe? I haven't been in an S so maybe the two cars feel exactly the same but I would expect the throttle feeling when revving the engine would 'feel' different. But I'm probably totally wrong.

The 8v heads will be strongest at low and mid ranges while the 16v heads will have more pull left at redline. That's the difference you're feeling most likely.

Dave L · 07-04-2006, 04:26 PM

Yup, exactly AaronM, while my 8v never seemed to come alive the 16v seems really happy up near the top of the revs. for low to mid revs they seem pretty much equal, the 0-60 times support this.

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

Auto-x type setup, tight turns..etc, a stock 944S will have a advantage over a stock 944 Turbo.

In a road course, the 944 Turbo will eat the 944S alive.

It all depends on the situation.

Ford-o-phobic · 07-04-2006, 07:27 PM

944S is probably easier to drive, but a turbo is more fun.

PorscheDreamPA · 07-05-2006, 08:09 AM

Might find some info here: http://gallery.rennlist.com/gallery/album336 One of the articles tests all 4 models 924S, 944, 944S and turbo. The S was closer than I thought it would be around the track. A little over 2 seconds behind trhe turbo with the 24S and N/A another second or so behind.

AaronM · 07-05-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Techno Duck
Auto-x type setup, tight turns..etc, a stock 944S will have a advantage over a stock 944 Turbo.

You know, that's what I've always heard, but looking at Auto-X times the 951 seems to be consistantly quicker. Not by huge amounts, but by enough.

Dave L · 07-06-2006, 05:18 AM

IMHO Its going to depend on the course, if its a long sweeping course the turbo will stay spooled and it will do better than an S. In Ontario anyways we have these brutal little courses that involve 2 - 1 downshifts at times, shifts to 3rd are veryvery rare although holding at redline in second has happened a few time this year.

In this case I think a turbo would be a little more work to keep running quick. I have run against an S2 and 924S but not a turbo. My biggest PITA has been a Rx8 driven by an ex go cart racer. The go carters seem to be the bain of my existence and always force me into second place.

again its going to depend on the course. I like my S it works well for me and I dont have to worry about turbo maintenenace or problems.

Tervuren · Tervuren's Garage

I'm going with the Turbo - I'd expect a better low end on the Turbo then the 944S. The 944S is I beleive a more peaky engine then the regular US Spec 944. I haven't driven a 951 yet, but I know the 924 Turbo I drove was punching from 3,000RPM on if you put the right foot down, where as a 944 is going to take more to 4,000RPM before its realy on it.

Its not that the turbo has less lowend power, but more with the lag. Catch it wrong, and nothing seems to happen for a breif period when you need it.

Dantilla · 07-06-2006, 08:12 AM

If you're looking for a daily driver, the best of the entire range of 4-cylinder water-pumpers is either an S2 or a 968.

I have owned or driven pretty extensively every car in the range except the 924 turbo.

The S2 and 968 offer gobs of torque right off idle compared to all others. While it's true the 951 can produce silly horsepower numbers with a few mods, the tall gearing is not as pleasent to drive in traffic, and it lacks the low-end grunt of the 3-litre cars.

Performance-wise, I would divide the cars as the 951, 968 and S2 being far different, higher performing cars than all the others. These cars came with better brakes to handle the increased power.

While a stock 944S is a great car, there would be very few conditions where it could out-perform a 951. Maybe a short, one-lane road where it has a head start.

AaronM · 07-06-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tervuren
I'm going with the Turbo - I'd expect a better low end on the Turbo then the 944S. The 944S is I beleive a more peaky engine then the regular US Spec 944. I haven't driven a 951 yet, but I know the 924 Turbo I drove was punching from 3,000RPM on if you put the right foot down, where as a 944 is going to take more to 4,000RPM before its realy on it.

Its not that the turbo has less lowend power, but more with the lag. Catch it wrong, and nothing seems to happen for a breif period when you need it.

Actually, the turbo does have less power beforehand. It's running 8:1 compression where the regular 944 NA is closing in on (and in some cases surpassing) 10:1 compression. Plus, the 951 has slightly taller gearing.

It's not that the engine gets better at 3,000 RPM, it's that 3,000 RPM is essentially an "on/off" switch.

That said, I love my 951 and haven't had any issues with it in traffic.

EDIT: For some reason I thought the OP was asking about an S2, not an S. The regular S won't really touch a 951. A well-driven S2 on a tight course can give a 951 absolute fits.