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Eldorado's Avatar
 
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i just think you dont see them anymore because everyone is going towards the projector style lighting..
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Old 10-11-2006, 07:33 AM
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i dont really feel like arguing, this was just news i've came across from other forums a while back, whatever. consider yourself a winner.
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1986 944 orange (supercharged drift pig!)
1986 951 black (the green goblin! / drift pig 2.0)
1986 951 camo (drift pig 3.0)
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:36 AM
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it's not an arguement.. at least i didn't think it was...
i tried searching and couldn't come up with anything.. but i'd be interested to know..
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2008 Mini Cooper // '83 Porsche 944 // '01 Mazda Protege [sold] //
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:57 AM
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Like everyone else, the only thing I found was on a forum but it was on multiple forums so with that many people quoting, I would assume there may very well be some truth to it....at least I'll be saying that I have heard it's illegal and certainly not arguing that it is for sure legal. I guess just sitting on the fence because I don't know for sure. I also read where many other countries have the same law, but again nothing to prove either way. I had no idea that would even be considered as a law...thanks for sharing your information drift. There certainly could be some logic to it and it's not always jaywalkers that get hit...it's actually usually smaller children that don't think about danger yet. We certainly should protect their safety as best we can, especially when there are other options. Adults that walk in front of cars...well, no sympathy they should know better and having pop-ups increased the average national iq and improves the gene pool. Damn I hope I never do that after saying that!
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1990 944S2 Cabriolet
2002 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
2003 Maroon Ford F350 dually
Old 10-11-2006, 11:41 AM
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haha i see, well to sum up my thoughts, I think that a new car (specifically Porsche) would be extremely cool with pop-up headlights. I love the look on nearly every car that's had them. I was dissapointed to hear that they were illegal but I guess I found out through sources that werent 100% reliable either. It may just be a rumor, but who knows for sure.

If pop-up headlights are in fact illegal, then I think someone has totally lost it. If people are worried about injuries from getting hit then shouldnt they disallow huge jacked up trucks with giant steel bumpers?
click > http://www.floridagerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1188
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1986 944 orange (supercharged drift pig!)
1986 951 black (the green goblin! / drift pig 2.0)
1986 951 camo (drift pig 3.0)
1983 944 green (the bean! / daily driver)
Old 10-11-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eldorado
it's not an arguement.. at least i didn't think it was...
i tried searching and couldn't come up with anything.. but i'd be interested to know..
I definitely didn't intend for it to be an argument. I just want something more than heresay for evidence.

I don't know for sure one way or the other, but I'm inclined to think that their disappearance is more due to the fact that they aren't a "necessary evil" anymore.

Drift, I'm sorry if I came off argumentative. I really don't see it in my posts, but I have (according to my friends and I'm inclined to believe them) absolutely no ability to pursue a question any way other than bluntly. Really I'm just curious and have an overly high threshold for being convinced.

My guess is that the headlights are not specifically illegal, but that regulations against things that protrude from the front of a car have rendered retracting headlights sufficiently inconvenient to engineer that we won't see them again.
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Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
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Last edited by AaronM; 10-11-2006 at 12:19 PM..
Old 10-11-2006, 12:16 PM
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My .02... the only reason we don't see as many pop up headlights is the difference in drag coefficient.
"concealment headlamps" are still DOT approved and perfectly legal; these standards apply to current manufacturers:

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/571.108.htm

S12. Headlamp Concealment Devices.

S12.1 While the headlamp is illuminated, its fully opened headlamp concealment device shall remain fully opened should any loss of power to or within the headlamp concealment device occur.

S12.2 Whenever any malfunction occurs in a component that controls or conducts power for the actuation of the concealment device, each closed headlamp concealment device shall be capable of being fully opened by a means not requiring the use of any tools. Thereafter, the headlamp concealment device must remain fully opened until intentionally closed.

S12.3 Except for malfunctions covered by S12.2, each headlamp concealment device shall be capable of being fully opened and the headlamps illuminated by actuation of a single switch, lever, or similar mechanism, including a mechanism that is automatically actuated by a change in ambient light conditions.

S12.4 Each headlamp concealment device shall be installed so that the headlamp may be mounted, aimed, and adjusted without removing any component of the device, other than components of the headlamp assembly.

S12.5 Except for cases of malfunction covered by S12.2, each headlamp concealment device shall, within an ambient temperature range of -20 F to +120 F, be capable of being fully opened in not more than 3 seconds after the actuation of a driver-operated control.
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Last edited by 91S2; 10-11-2006 at 01:16 PM..
Old 10-11-2006, 01:08 PM
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hey no harm no foul guys, im just passing along words that i've heard from others. I'm glad I am proven wrong according to 91S2 ^, I really do like the sleek look of pop-ups. I still think it would be awesome if Porsche or another company could put a car into production with pop-ups!
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1986 944 orange (supercharged drift pig!)
1986 951 black (the green goblin! / drift pig 2.0)
1986 951 camo (drift pig 3.0)
1983 944 green (the bean! / daily driver)
Old 10-11-2006, 03:45 PM
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I agree that there is plenty of room beneath the Boxster for an entry level car, but as others have already pointed out, its debatable if Porsche wants to be in that marketplace.

Personally, even more than a new 944, I would love to see them make a back-to-basics competitor for the Lotus Elise/Exige. No a/c, interior carpet, stereo, sound deadning, power accessories, etc. Pretty much a pure sports car. Those who want creature comforts can spend more for a Boxster or Cayman.

Then again, since this proposed car will be more agile and more of a driver's car than the Boxster, Cayman, and 911....I doubt Porsche would ever even think about making it.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nabeel


Personally, even more than a new 944, I would love to see them make a back-to-basics competitor for the Lotus Elise/Exige. No a/c, interior carpet, stereo, sound deadning, power accessories, etc. Pretty much a pure sports car. Those who want creature comforts can spend more for a Boxster or Cayman.

That's called a GT3 RS, and it will whip the bejesus out of an exige on the track...... for a price....
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:47 AM
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Not to mention it will look good doing it.
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1990 944S2 Cabriolet
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2003 Maroon Ford F350 dually
Old 10-12-2006, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nabeel
Personally, even more than a new 944, I would love to see them make a back-to-basics competitor for the Lotus Elise/Exige. No a/c, interior carpet, stereo, sound deadning, power accessories, etc. Pretty much a pure sports car. Those who want creature comforts can spend more for a Boxster or Cayman.[/B]
Sounds like a new 914.
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Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
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Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 10-12-2006, 07:07 AM
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My 240sx had a small motor for EACH pop up headlight. Very light, smooth, and quiet operation. And if one motor failed at least you could get home on one. The 944 has one much heavier motor tied to a noisy, much less smooth linkage, and if the one motor fails or the linkage breaks you're stuck till morning or till the tow truck arrives. Oh yeah, I guess you can crank that stupid knob.

Can't wait for a P-car with a V6. Then when the owner totals the body I can scoop up the engine for my 944. That's all it needs, except maybe a shorter 5th.
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Old 10-12-2006, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harpman2
My 240sx had a small motor for EACH pop up headlight. Very light, smooth, and quiet operation. And if one motor failed at least you could get home on one. The 944 has one much heavier motor tied to a noisy, much less smooth linkage, and if the one motor fails or the linkage breaks you're stuck till morning or till the tow truck arrives. Oh yeah, I guess you can crank that stupid knob.

Can't wait for a P-car with a V6. Then when the owner totals the body I can scoop up the engine for my 944. That's all it needs, except maybe a shorter 5th.
If your 944's headlights are noisey, you've busted something. I've had a 924S, a 944, and a 951 and their headlight mechanisms have all been silent and smooth as silk.

I had an '88 Accord with retracting headlights that used two motors and was noisey as all getout (had a very noticeable whine).

Your 240 may have had a slightly lighter mechanism than the 944, (though simply by looking at the two you have no real way to tell if it was lighter or not) but it's still significantly heavier and far more complex to engineer than a fixed-headlamp system.
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Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
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Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 10-12-2006, 08:14 PM
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My headlights on my two cars have been extremely quiet as well.
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1990 944S2 Cabriolet
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2003 Maroon Ford F350 dually
Old 10-12-2006, 09:24 PM
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my high-beams are exceptionally quiet when I turn them on
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1986 944 orange (supercharged drift pig!)
1986 951 black (the green goblin! / drift pig 2.0)
1986 951 camo (drift pig 3.0)
1983 944 green (the bean! / daily driver)

Last edited by drift a 944; 10-12-2006 at 11:33 PM..
Old 10-12-2006, 11:30 PM
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You know, if the motor fails, I am pretty dead-sure that you can pop the hood, take the rubber boot off the headlight motor and crank the headlights up/down by hand. It is a feature on my Toyota SR5 (which has tiny dual motors) and I believe It can be done on the Porsche.
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Old 10-13-2006, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harpman2
Oh yeah, I guess you can crank that stupid knob.


You are both right, you can crank them up.
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1990 944S2 Cabriolet
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Old 10-13-2006, 04:25 AM
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if you do have to crank them up using that knob, then do you have to crank them back down before using the headlight motor again (with electricity once motor is fixed)?

thanks
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Old 10-13-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harpman2
if you do have to crank them up using that knob, then do you have to crank them back down before using the headlight motor again (with electricity once motor is fixed)?

thanks
Nope. Once power is restored they should retract on their own. That's why you have to pull the fuse for the headlamp motor before manually cranking them.
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Shifting is an art. Learn it, love it, live it.
---------
Silver 1998 Volvo S70 T5 <- Daily (Anja)
Guards Red 1986 951 <- Seattle car (Gretchen)
White 1976 914 2.0 F.I. <- Prodigal car, traded away then brought back again (Lorelei)
Old 10-13-2006, 03:30 PM
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