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Tom, thanks i'll give that a try next time i get under the car over the weekend. and i'll make sure no ones around
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1995 993 C2
Old 12-12-2006, 09:57 AM
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i located a Torque Tube for 75 bucks, thankfully its only about 15 minutes north of where i live. the TT has 107K on it and is from an 87 944.

guess this may be my early january project.

im going to see if i can find taller jack stands (4) to get some additional room under the car. since the rear suspension is going to be lowered i wont be able to put stands under the torsion bar ends, i guess i'll have put them under the 'lift points' of the car (the side arrows). unless someone has a better place to hold the rear. i cant think of any other place in the back...I'll have the front up via two stands under the crossmember in the front.

i'll also need some bricks to 'prop up' the rear suspension as i lower it.

im also figuring for this job that the extent of it will be to just swap the TT. as theres not much else on my 'do list' in this area of the car. are there any bolts that are not reusable? i will use lock tite on the CVs when i put them back in there.

is there any additional specialty tools i'll need? ie alighment of the TT ect? i'll be going strictly off clarks garage and you guys for fill ins.
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1995 993 C2
Old 12-12-2006, 03:07 PM
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Kevin: Please post pics and status of the progress as I may need to do the same thing soon.

Steve
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:44 PM
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man guys, i just cant for the life of me nail this down... i got under the car today after a drive, with the stethoscope and touched about two dozen places on the TT, the tranny, near the starter, and i just cant isolate this. the car has to be really warm for it to start making the noise. its cool out here today, so even when the car was warm it was just sort of chirping, not as bad as it was the other day when ambiant temp was much warmer. if anything it seemed to get louder when i touched the bell housing that connected the TT to the tranny. but its hard to say, that thing could be acting like a horn just funneling the noise.

im afraid im going to have to wait for something to FAIL or get much worse.

i can hear the noise though in gear, usually under no load around 2100RPM, when you change RPMs in gear it'll go away. when you shift out of gear, you defiantly hear it. when you stop in N its there... tried changing the RPMs while it was in N, and i could FAINTLY hear the rattle change pitch, ever so slightly, but any significant variation of RPMs, even in N, it'll just go away.

i may just have to wait for this thing to start screaming.... ugh.
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1995 993 C2

Last edited by EMBPilot; 12-16-2006 at 01:57 PM..
Old 12-16-2006, 01:51 PM
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I would consider rebuilding the torque tube. No sense in going through all of that work to change the torque tube, only to have a bearing go bad, or already be bad as you take turn the corner.

Also you may even consider changing the clutch while your at it. Hell..taking the torque tube and transmission out and you are about 1/4 of the way done with a clutch job.

Ive got a bad bearing on my torque tube..bought the car like that, almost 30k miles later and it hasent gotten any worse or better. I just got a spare tube to rebuild...going to be the winter project.
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Old 12-16-2006, 02:46 PM
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very good point jon, maybe i'll just live with it until i have to do the clutch sometime down the road when it gives. (right now the clutch is very tight (finds wood to knock on)
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Old 12-16-2006, 05:23 PM
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These type of problems are very hard to find. Metal carries that vibration and noise very well and it's really hard to tell where it's coming from. I wish I had a great way to track this down, but nothing is coming to mind that would help pinpoint it.
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Old 12-17-2006, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
when you stop in N its there... tried changing the RPMs while it was in N, and i could FAINTLY hear the rattle change pitch, ever so slightly, but any significant variation of RPMs, even in N, it'll just go away.
That noise you hear in neutral could be the 5th gear at the very end of the transaxle main input shaft rattling while floating in the disengaged or Neutral position.
You don't normally hear it when the gear oil is cold and only shows up when the gear oil is fully warmed up and has thinned down.
If the noise is really bad, the 5th gear needle bearing cage could have split into half causing a lot of play.

Torque tube bearing and inner sleeve failure is also possible.
But, when the TT bearing fails, the shifter will vibrate when accelerating and cruising at certain rpm range which you don't experience at all.

As Techno Duck suggested, rebuild your Spare TT before replaceing the original one if you decide to replace it.
It will save you a ton of work and give you a long time of driving pleasure.

Good luck.
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:06 AM
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bazar, wow thats a new perspective! very interesting!

you know when i moved the stethasope to the the pax side of the tranny toward the front of tranny housing the noise seemed to be there, a little clearer than when i had it on the TT itself, but i just wasnt sure if it was being carried there by the TT bellhousing. when i had the steth against the TT i thought i could hear the bearings 'rolling' kind of a smooth rolling sound (like a soft growel)

where is the 5th gear located?
i have to drive the car for a GOOD 15-20 minutes BEFORE the noise even STARTS to show up. shifter is perfectly smooth, no vibes.

would you think a fluid change to something like swepco ect maybe worth looking into just for grins????

the tranny fluid was last changed to mobile 1 synthetic about two years ago.
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Last edited by EMBPilot; 12-17-2006 at 07:20 AM..
Old 12-17-2006, 06:12 AM
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If it's the 5th gear, I won't worry about it.
But if you really want to check it, you have to drop the tranny.
The 5th gear is in the back of the transaxle.
Once it's off the car, you can access it by removing the back end housing.
If you decide to do it, you will need the factory transmission manual.


The 5th gear needle bearing sits on the shaft with the blue bearing grease.
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Last edited by bazar01; 12-17-2006 at 08:32 AM..
Old 12-17-2006, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EMBPilot

would you think a fluid change to something like swepco ect maybe worth looking into just for grins????
i did not try putting the stethascope that far back on the tranny but next time i go under the car to listen for this i will look in that location.
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:30 AM
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i checked the rear part of the tranny with the stethoscope, the noise sounds the same there as it does when i put the steth up the bell housing on the torque tube that attaches to the tranny.

something i noticed thats different from what i stated earlier in this thread is how noise associates with the RPMs...

while the car was in the garage, in N, with the clutch up, i changed the RPMs, the rattle is most prevalent at idle, 800-1000. once i increase the RPMs in N, the squeaky rattle is still there! it just changes pitch, and gets a little quieter, but the noise of the engine and exhaust mask it more, but listening VERY closely you can hear the noise get faster and increase in pitch, it just doesnt sound as "shakey/rattling" , it just seems a little less noisy, it turns into more of a steady high pitched squeel (although much quieter than at idle). But it does speed up with the engine, infact I was able to hear it up-till about 3K.
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Last edited by EMBPilot; 12-18-2006 at 07:40 PM..
Old 12-18-2006, 06:58 PM
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