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Throw out bearing? Torque Tube?

Im thinking torque tube bearings or throw out bearing??

Symptoms... "shaky sounding high pitched rattling noise" coming from either the front of the car near the clutch/starter area or the back of the car near the front of the transmission, but i think its louder towards the starter.

when the car is out of gear the clutch is UP you can hear this squeaky shaky sort of high pitched rattle. push the clutch all the way down, the sound will go away once the clutch is full down for about two seconds. if you push the clutch down a little, it makes no change, the sound is still there.

when you bring the clutch up when its in gear, the noise goes away immediately.

if you bring the clutch up while in neutral, the noise will return.


thoughts ideas, solutions?
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Last edited by EMBPilot; 12-10-2006 at 06:12 PM..
Old 12-10-2006, 01:01 PM
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Probably not the throwout bearing. I think you may be right with regards to the torque tube bearings. With the transmission in neutral, then all you are spinning is the torque tube shaft and the front shaft of the transmission so it pretty much is one of those two. If it were the throwout bearing pushing the clutch just a little should make it stop or get worse. If it is coming from the back of the car, it could be a transmission input shaft bearing.
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1990 944S2 Cabriolet
2002 Chevy Silverado 2500HD
2003 Maroon Ford F350 dually
Old 12-10-2006, 06:29 PM
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hummm, thanks tom, id really like to narrow this down, the noise isnt quiet, its loud, id really like to fix it. this is moving up quickly on my list.

the only way to stop it is to start driving in gear or push the clutch to the floor and the sound slowly goes away, over 2-3 seconds.. clutch back up in N, noise starts again....

i didnt think TT bearings would rattle that loud?!
rebuidling that thing looks like a PITA, a handful of parts that may have to be machined ect. may be better off just finding a used TT.

what are about that other bearing you mentioned, transmission input shaft? what are some other symptoms of the Throw Out Bearing?

i failed to mention two things...

1 that this noise does not occur if the car is COLD. initial start and for the first while of driving its not there at all. once its all good and warm the noise starts in.

2 i was coasting IN GEAR, it was at a smooth speed, where the tranny isnt slowing the car down and the engine isnt driving the tranny, right in the middle there, but i heard the noise as the car was coasting, it was at a pretty slow speed because it occured as i was turning down my street. that was the only time i heard it while in gear, and i think it had to do with me just happening to be at a speed where there was no load. like i said, its most prevent in N while stopped.
thanks guys.
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Last edited by EMBPilot; 12-10-2006 at 07:05 PM..
Old 12-10-2006, 06:54 PM
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well, don't forget the free-play in the pedal. my '84 does the same thing... and i'm hearing a faint bit of noise in the 951 as well. press about 1/2 inch on the pedal and nothing happens, then comes in the hydraulic action... when the clutch is all the way down, or the car is in gear, no noise. ALSO, when in neutral, and i rev the motor a little, the noise also goes away. not sure if that shifts the blame from TOB to TTB, but that's what happens with my car.
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'88 951S - zermatt silber/black - staying stock. purchased in 11-2006
'84 944 - gemini grau/tan+brown - lightly modified. purchased in 11-2001
'85.5 944a - indischrot/black - at least it handled well. mid 2001-mid 2004
'83 944 - zermatt silber/black - Dad's 40k mile time capsule. purchased in 09-1998 @ 18k
Old 12-10-2006, 06:58 PM
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ooh, it takes awhile to go away, huh.... like time to spin down say a jet engine in my cars the noise goes away immediately, and like i said it went away initially after my clutch change in the 944. i think you may have torque tube bearing problems
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'88 951S - zermatt silber/black - staying stock. purchased in 11-2006
'84 944 - gemini grau/tan+brown - lightly modified. purchased in 11-2001
'85.5 944a - indischrot/black - at least it handled well. mid 2001-mid 2004
'83 944 - zermatt silber/black - Dad's 40k mile time capsule. purchased in 09-1998 @ 18k
Old 12-10-2006, 07:00 PM
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thanks mike,
interesting... yeah i timed it, with it rattling in N, i push the clutch down to the floor it will definatly take 2-3 seconds AFTER the peldal is fully down. it sort of 'rattles away' it doesnt stop immediatly, just softens then goes away....
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Last edited by EMBPilot; 12-10-2006 at 07:16 PM..
Old 12-10-2006, 07:07 PM
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kind of like the fan blades starting to rattle when the engine spins down, huh... its cool at first, but tends to get annoying when you work on the ramp and have to hear it all afternoon... perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so darned windy lately!

good luck with this man... i've learned to live with it, even though it does sound kinda ghetto
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'88 951S - zermatt silber/black - staying stock. purchased in 11-2006
'84 944 - gemini grau/tan+brown - lightly modified. purchased in 11-2001
'85.5 944a - indischrot/black - at least it handled well. mid 2001-mid 2004
'83 944 - zermatt silber/black - Dad's 40k mile time capsule. purchased in 09-1998 @ 18k
Old 12-10-2006, 07:15 PM
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fan blades kinda, tic tic tic tic as they fall, i like that sound. this is sort of a trashy rattle, its loud. i can just think to myself people in other cars are closing their windows saying to themselves "is that my car?" "or this POS next to me?"

if you guys think its the TT then i may be able to nail down a used TT for $50-150. if any members have one laying around let me know... or i'll be going through evil bay if everyone thinks its definatly the Torque Tube.

im going to warm it up again tomorrow get it on stands and roll under it and listen a lot closer. i'll also try pushing the clutch down halfway, but im pretty sure i tried that today and it didnt change anything.
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:22 PM
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Yeah, mine is really bumming me out. It does the high pitched rattle (really annoying) during decelaration in gear. If I push the clutch in all the way, no noise. I can slowly push it in until the clutch is slipping, noise still there. Under load, no noise. Help me please. I also had to get "Toad" today for the first time since I have owned the car. I was on the highway and after about 30 minutes it started cutting out, bad. I could push in the clutch and rev it up w/ no problem. As soon as I would
let the clutch out it would start bucking. This went on for a while then stopped. I got back in to come home and the same thing, 30 minutes OK, cutting out after that. All of a sudden, no run. I pulled over and I looked at the fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and 0 PSI. I replaced the DME relay a few weeks back. I guess, and please correce me if I'm wrong, I will check the pump for voltage first. I have a brand new Bosch high output one in the garage along w/ a new filter. Hopefully it is as simpleas that.
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:46 PM
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Sorry to hear about that Steve. I always keep a spare DME relay in the glove box as I hate being stranded on the road. I am also considering putting in an emergency circuit to bypass the DME relay for situations like this. It would be very simple to do and like I said..it burns my buns when I'm left at the side of the road.

Getting under the car may help some, but it's really going to be hard to tell for sure. Sound travels through metal very well and it pretty much has to be something that touches all those pieces. I'm not sure how to tell which one it is for sure other than trial and error. Anybody else have a clue how to properly diagnose something like this? The input shaft on the transmission is what connects to the driveline in the torque tube in the back and of course it spins any time the drive line spins. That's why it's going to be hard to tell which one it is. Try putting a stethescope on the torque tube and see where it's the loudest. If it's in the front toward the engine, then it's probably torque tube bearings...if it's in the rear, it could be either of the two. The only way I can think of to tell is to pull the torque tube and spin it on the bench and see if the noise is there or not. If not, then try spinning the transmission shaft and see what that yields. None of this sounds like too much fun. You have me thinking that while I have my motor out, I should just go ahead and replace my bearings. Seems like the logical time.
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1990 944S2 Cabriolet
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2003 Maroon Ford F350 dually
Old 12-10-2006, 10:06 PM
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took the car out to dinner tonight, after driving about 15 min or so the noise came back as usual. Once i got it back into the garage i got under it. although i can hear the sound from up front by the starter it is defiantly louder at the back end by the tranny.

Torque tube issue
or
the front bearing on the tranny? whats the name for that part?

i found that pushing the clutch down half way doesnt make the noise stop if the car is in N. the clutch needs to be pushed to full travel down or at least just a few inches from full down before the noise slowly goes away.

and again, i heard it while in gear tonight during coasting with some throttle in. like i said, if the engine is slowing the car down, or speeding the car up in gear, even a little no noise.
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Old 12-11-2006, 03:22 PM
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my guess is torque tube. my transmission makes a lot of noise in second, and a very high-pitched, WRC style whine in 5th. 944 transmissions are notoriously noisy, but it sounds to me like you have torque tube issues
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'88 951S - zermatt silber/black - staying stock. purchased in 11-2006
'84 944 - gemini grau/tan+brown - lightly modified. purchased in 11-2001
'85.5 944a - indischrot/black - at least it handled well. mid 2001-mid 2004
'83 944 - zermatt silber/black - Dad's 40k mile time capsule. purchased in 09-1998 @ 18k
Old 12-11-2006, 03:55 PM
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If the noise is that loud, you should be able to pin down the location with a stethescope.
But none of the options sound very good. I've had the tranny out once and that was enuf. Lotsa hours laying on your back........
Good luck.

Jon
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:19 PM
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i wish i had a stethascope, but i dont have one in my collection.

so down with the suspension and out comes the tranny to put in a used TT. i'll keep my eyes out for one and when i can get my hands on one i'll dig in. sounds like in the mean time its more of an anoyance than anything else.
thanks again guys.
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:49 PM
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Hey Kev, you can use my stethascope if you want.
The throwout bearing will usually make more of a low pitch growl or whirring sound when it goes.
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:18 PM
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Vinny, thanks!
maybe one weekend i'll swing by for just a few minutes if your home, we can listen closer.

did you tell your wife you wanted a LIFT for christmas? i'll bring the beer!
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:20 PM
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I marked out the spots on the garage floor and left a lift catalog on the kitchen table.

Hint, hint.
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Old 12-11-2006, 05:29 PM
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Tom:

It was definately the pump. Fortunately (unfortunately at the time) it went into a total failure mode and stayed that way. I spent about 3 hrs today replacing it along w/ the filter, the tank screen, all the clamps, and a new supply hose from the tank to the pump/ While up in air I got the power washer out and used a couple squirt bottles og Simple Green then blasted it off. It looks great under there now. I kinda hate to get rid of it. Jeannie has decided I need something "mre reliable". This is the first time it's ever totally stranded me. It was trying to communicate the problem but I just did not listen until it was too late. Oh well. Hey I hope you and Candace have a wonderful Christmas, Chanuka, Whatever your particular celebration is. Take care of each other. Let me know when you guys can come up, I would love to have a couple cold ones and talk cars. I will probably have a new (to me) something right after the 1st. I drove an M3 roadster today and they are unbelievably quick. I really liked it a lot. That weird looking coupe version is growning on me. They can be had for $22-$25K.

Steve
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:49 PM
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M-Coupe looks like a clown shoe.

I love the look and they really are quick. Try to find one with the S54 engine (01-02), 75 more hp than all other models. Same engine as the E46 M3 just with a lower rev limit.

They are great cars and in some respects similar to the 944s handling characteristics..just much newer and refined. My friend has a completley worked suspension in his and it grips extremely well.

Its strange though, i dont like the front that much on the older models, but loved the rear. I love the front on the new '06 M-Coupes but i dont like the rear. go figure.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:40 PM
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Hey Steve, glad you have it fixed. I have been guilty of not listening to my car on a few occasions myself. Candace and I will be up soon, so keep in touch if you sell the 944. You would think that now I'm retired, I would have a lot of time to work on the car, but it always seems like something keeps coming up but it'll be done soon. Taking some parts off to the chrome shop tomorrow. Refinishing all the engine parts is taking quite a while, but hopefully we'll get it soon.

Kevin...put a screwdriver blade against the part and the handle to your ear, it will do the same thing. Sounds stupid and looks even more dumb (so I never let anyone see me do it), but it works.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:39 PM
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