ES12a refrigerant

[jackrussell]

Has anyone used ES12a refrigerant to replace R12? It is claimed to be colder and cheaper.

[kdjones2000]

Originally Posted by jackrussell

Has anyone used ES12a refrigerant to replace R12? It is claimed to be colder and cheaper.

EnviroSafe? I am using it in my 951 right now, works great!

Only downside is that is it a flammable refrigerant, unlike 134a/R12.

Lower high side pressure, less wear and tear on the compressor, and nice and cold.

What's not to like?

[wild man]

Same thing as HC-12, which I had bought a case of a few years back. That's how I found out about R-290. Smell some, light some, and you will probably figure it out. It has an "aka" (or generic) name, and almost everyone probably has about 1 to 20 pounds, or so, of it lying around the house or garage (patio, maybe?). With regard to refrigerants, the digits after the "R" are determined by the number of atoms of the individual elements the make up the compound, or something like that. It does beat every other refrigerant, hands down, in every possible category, except for one - flammability. That's why so many won't mess with it. But as far as I am concerned, it is an acceptable risk. The risk from driving around in a car that has gasoline in the tank is far greater. And there is a fairly large number of people who do that every day, without ever giving a thought to the risk. I do carry a fire extinguisher though. But that is "standard procedure" for me, just like wearing a seat belt. In my eyes, it is a 3-point harness that could save me from horrible injuries. Since I'm drifting off the subject, I'll finish now.

[jackrussell]

Originally Posted by kdjones2000

EnviroSafe? I am using it in my 951 right now, works great!

Only downside is that is it a flammable refrigerant, unlike 134a/R12.

Lower high side pressure, less wear and tear on the compressor, and nice and cold.

What's not to like?

Did you use the EnviroSafe kit with custom charging hose to connect to R12 fittings on your system, or do you have 134 fittings?
My 944 is '83 model with original R12 system.

[kdjones2000]

Mine was already converted over to 134a, so I bought a cheap HF set of 134a gauges and used that to charge the system.

I would get the R12 setup for the earlies, as that is a tight spot you have to do your charging in.

Keith

[wild man]

Originally Posted by jackrussell

Did you use the EnviroSafe kit with custom charging hose to connect to R12 fittings on your system, or do you have 134 fittings?
My 944 is '83 model with original R12 system.

It most likely uses an R-134a can tap/hose setup like HC-12 and OZ-12 do. Of course you need the adapter to fit it to the Anderson valve on the R-12 system. I believe ES-12 is also the same flammable refrigerant (R-290) as OZ-12 and HC-12.

[kdjones2000]

Yes, ES uses a R134a can tap....

[thoen]

it must be summer!!!!

[OnTheRun2]

Just did this, and man am I happy with the results.
A few notes that made me want to give this stiff a try.
From the EnviroSafe website.

Use only 2 cans to charge the system of your car or SUV.

Guaranteed not to harm your A/C system!

Enviro-Safe ES-12a is up to 32% more efficient than R-12 and even more efficient than R-134a. This means less wear on your refrigeration system, substantial energy savings and reduced operating costs. With Enviro-Safe the compressor will only load approximately 2-3 hp. Enviro-Safe ES-12a's boiling temperature is -30.4°F. Enviro-Safe ES-12a was designed as an R-12 replacement in all R-12 applications.

Enviro-Safe is guaranteed to perform as an efficient refrigerant in all systems. Enviro-Safe is guaranteed to be up to 32% more efficient than Freon ®*. Enviro-Safe is guaranteed not to become caustic if contaminated with moisture and oxygen.

Enviro-Safe is further guaranteed not to harm air conditioning system components or any other related mechanical equipment if installed and used according to factory directions.

A $3,000,000.00 insurance policy is maintained to back the Enviro-Safe guarantee. To date, no claims have ever been made against this policy.

If desired, pull a vacuum, and keep in mind that no more than 10 inches of mercury (vacuum) is required. Unlike Freon®*, Enviro-Safe does not become caustic if moisture is present. Also charging under a high vacuum might result in an overcharge if you're charging from a canister. An overcharge can cause loss of cooling efficiency.

[jbaeng]

Hello all, just one thing to add to this R12 alternative discussion. I picked up an '88 944 NA last year in April and made it thru the summer with no AC. I was too busy getting the rest of the car dialed in to deal with the AC and Nor Cal by the ocean is usually cool. I drove it to the east coast this spring and started to bake in the heat and humidity! I brought it to a shop to check the AC system out (I was ready to pay for R12 or convert it too R134) and they charged it with Freeze 12 refrigerant and it now puts icicles on my forehead!! One of the best AC systems I've ever had in a car. It is a real joy after the '81 911 I had when driving in hot weather.

Anyone ever use the Freeze 12 and should I be worried about my AC system long term?

[mattdavis11]

Freeze 12 works well. In my experience, the only thing you really need to watch out for are the seals on the compressor, the clutch and clutch bearing, but that goes for any compressor that is as old as ours.

[mattdavis11]

Freeze 12 works well. In my experience, the only thing you really need to watch out for are the seals on the compressor, the clutch and clutch bearing, but that goes for any compressor that is as old as ours.

[thoen]

1. is the low side right next to the dryer and easily assessible?
2. i found my freeze 12 connector to be too small for that fitting. is it possible that the previous owner changed it to 134? is the 134 connector larger than the r12??

[jackrussell]

Originally Posted by thoen

1. is the low side right next to the dryer and easily assessible?
2. i found my freeze 12 connector to be too small for that fitting. is it possible that the previous owner changed it to 134? is the 134 connector larger than the r12??

That's the HIGH side next to the dryer! The low side is on the compressor and not easy to get to. See the previous threads re: converting to R134a and ES12a. You probably need a shorter belt for the compressor/alternator to get better clearance to the fitting.

[thoen]

GULP!!!
no wonder it didn't let the refrigerant in.
i found the low side but someone put in an 134 inlet. now i am looking for aq right angle r12 female to r12 male adaptor. thanks for your help jack!!

[jackrussell]

Originally Posted by thoen

GULP!!!
no wonder it didn't let the refrigerant in.
i found the low side but someone put in an 134 inlet. now i am looking for aq right angle r12 female to r12 male adaptor. thanks for your help jack!!

thoen, Apparently your car was previously converted to 134a based on the fittings you found. Your belt may have also been changed previously.
Complete belt information was listed on your original thread "converting to 134a" by mattdavis11. Thanks again Matt.
It's my understanding that freeze-12 uses 134a fittings. Check this out from the previous threads.
I still haven't decided whether to go with 134a, ES12a, or freeze-12 with my original R-12 system.
Tom.

[onZedge]

Freeze 12 uses R12 fittings.

[thoen]

kudos to matt davis for all of the ac information and also jack russell. lots was learned! i changed the ac/alternator belt about a year ago. there was a right angle fitting underneath next to the compressor. i just ebay/bought a r12 right andfle fitting and off i'll go...
i will report on the freeze 12 when it starts cooling the moist and warm new york air!!

[jackrussell]

Originally Posted by onZedge

Freeze 12 uses R12 fittings.

Thanks for the quick response Edek! Duly noted.
Tom.

[thoen]

ernest