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I'm with Bill
 
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911sc Vs 944s

I am making a comparison since Speedy asked me to compair my 2 cars.
In one corner we have my 82SC, all origional condition with 125xxx on the clock. In the other corner we have my 87 944S, it is also origional condition with 135xxx on the clock. I will try to be as objective as I can and I am not saying one is better than the other, so please save the flaming for when I realy tick someone off. That being said , here we go.
Power:
This is where the 911 is top dog, there is no comparison. the 911 wins hands down.
Handeling:
This is kind of apples and oranges. The 911 requires constant attention. It is unforgiving, and can put you into a tree in the blink of an eye. In the hands of an experianced pilot, it is a beautifull thing, in the hands of a novice it is simply ugly
The 944 is a completly neutral vehicle that comes to life in the twisties. It is a car that anybody can drive and have a good time with a connection to the pavement that is hard to find in almost any other stock car. It almost seems to gain HP when faced with a blind corner and just smiles as lesser cars become small spots in the rearview mirror.
In my opinion after standing in concrete for 12 hours a day (I'm a wrench) the 944 is the way to fly.
As for an answer to Speedy, I recomend having both since they are so differant...........one for each mood.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:47 PM
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Wow, you won't hear that too often from the 911 crowd.
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:49 PM
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I also have one of each, but they don't make a fair comparison since they are prepared very differently from one another. The 911 is set up for autocrossing, while the 944 is a race car.

I agree with the different handling. Anybody can jump in a 944 and feel like Mario Andretti, while the 911 has quite the learning curve. Once mastered, the 911 is the king of bursting out of the turns. Before understanding the car, it's like putting your head inside a lion's mouth wondering if you are going to get bit. Driven at the limits, the 911 requires some control inputs that are counter to instinct.

The 944 is a more modern car. More refined, more like most other cars on the road, while the 911 is full of idiocyncrsies. But it's the odd things about the 911 that make you feel you're driving something unique.

Two very different cars. Both a joy to drive.
Old 01-20-2007, 10:05 PM
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911 feels more refined, solid...special
944 feels more usable, practical for daily driving...

of course i did have a 73S wich is a motha in slow city traffic due to clunky clutch , clunkly brakes, and an engine that's asthmatic below 5000 rpm , the 944S is also feels like it has less downlow then a 944 regular, but it's torqey compared to the 73S i used to own...

the 944 S rules in the downshifts on highways,
just like the 73S was just plain mean on the downshift, it would scare people off the road with it's howl...

the real drawback of a 911 is in the wet&windy, they are so sensitive to crosswind, and the wet just means you will drive slower then you would in a 944, at least you will if you want to drive safe and your name is not Jacky Ickx...
the other drawback is the amount of oil , and the time it takes to warm up properly, which means it's useless for any drives less then 10 miles +, at least not without feeling guilty if you do those kinds of runs regulary... the 944 however warms up a lot faster, less oil, and watercooling so easier to control the warmup...
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by svandamme
the 944 however warms up a lot faster, less oil, and watercooling so easier to control the warmup...
It still astounds me how fast the 944 warms up. You get full heat after about 30 seconds, and are at operating temp within a couple miles (unless it's like 20 below).
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CJFusco
Wow, you won't hear that too often from the 911 crowd.
I am not a 911 snob. I like cars for what they are designed for, and everyone is differant..................Just like women, I like all kinds.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CJFusco
It still astounds me how fast the 944 warms up. You get full heat after about 30 seconds, and are at operating temp within a couple miles (unless it's like 20 below).
you're exegerating slightly i think..

on a cold day mine doesn't give heat till at least 1 minutes driving
and full whack heat takes another 1-2 minutes..

you sure yours doesn't have a webasto hidden somewhere under yer dash?
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:14 AM
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Maybe i'm exaggerating, but it warms up much, much faster than my Olds.
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:20 AM
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Rick V:

The nice part is that you have 2 nice cars to compare. I have the same feeling about my 89 951 (stock) and 96 Mustang Cobra (heavily modified for street/tracking). Each car has its positives, and IMHO the best qualities for a car guy who likes to drive fast and under control. There is never a "best", you gotta love all your toys -- if you pick the best ones that work for you.
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Old 01-21-2007, 10:21 AM
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I have both but I like the 944's handling.
Though 964 has a better drivetrain than the 944 with it's TT and R&P issues.
But both attracts idiot street ricers.

As far as heating, air-cooled has faster heat.
A really nice feature with air-cooled engines.
Thanks to the exhaust heat exchanger.
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bazar01


As far as heating, air-cooled has faster heat.
A really nice feature with air-cooled engines.
Thanks to the exhaust heat exchanger.
cabin heat in aircooled does not mean warmed up engine... that's the point i referred to...
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
cabin heat in aircooled does not mean warmed up engine... that's the point i referred to...
I know that. I am talking about cabin heat as CJ mentioned.
In 32F outside temp, it takes forever to warm up the engine because the engine fan moves a lot of air.
It takes me about 20 miles driving below 3k rpm in 4th gear to get the 964 to operating temp.
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:25 PM
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Rick,
Thanks for the comparo. I have yet to even ride in a 911 or drive one for that matter. Shhhh don't tell anybody Maybe once I am out of school I will go for a Carrera (87?) OR A 993.

Speedy
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Old 01-21-2007, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bazar01
I know that. I am talking about cabin heat as CJ mentioned.
In 32F outside temp, it takes forever to warm up the engine because the engine fan moves a lot of air.
It takes me about 20 miles driving below 3k rpm in 4th gear to get the 964 to operating temp.
I guess I meant both ways.
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Old 01-21-2007, 05:14 PM
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My 911 was great, older than your SC. I wanted a track car and I kept having to fix things that were expensive, also, my grocery getter was cold and wet in the morning before work, so the 911 was sold. That being said the 911 was a blast to drive even though it was low on power. The 944T is more stable, and the speed is quiet, smooth, and effortless. In an ideal world I would have a new 911 GT3 RS in the garage, but I would like having my '74 back too.
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Old 01-21-2007, 08:07 PM
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Speedy you already know your 944 is faster than a 3.6 swapped 911.

I just Autocrossed my 911 its the first time I actually pushed it to its limits. I refuse to to that on the street its just NOT the place to find a cars limits.

I also have a RX7 that Madza is proud to tell you was a direct ripoff of the 944.

Rick is 100% correct apples and oranges. There is no comparison these 2 cars arrive at the finish line and that is all they have in common how they get to it is totally different.

I was with the PCA and we got 8 runs in on Sunday. But the 7th to 8th run I was finally getting a handle on driving it with my right foot and opposite lock on the wheel.

The big difference between my 2 cars is that the Porsche WANTS to put the rear end around to the front, its trying to convince it that you want it out back that takes finesse.

The RX7 is much more balanced and is happy with the rear out back and isn't going to argue with you like the 911 does.

Comparing 2 cars on the street just isn't a good comparison. I never form an opinion on a car until I have Autocrossed it, even open track days will hide handling problems, an Autocross will magnify the smallest handling flaws.

There is a PCA memeber in south florida with a 400RWHP 944 that just owns everything it encounters at Autocrosses. A 944 makes for a great Autocross car that will be fast. A 911 is a much harder car to drive and in my opinion much more rewarding when you do because it takes so much more driver input. From a 944 drivers prespective you might say that means the 911 just isn't as well equiped. You might be right, its hard to describe the feeling, the rush pushing a 911 to its limits and keeping it there.
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Last edited by Jims5543; 01-23-2007 at 05:35 AM..
Old 01-23-2007, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bazar01
As far as heating, air-cooled has faster heat.
A really nice feature with air-cooled engines.
Thanks to the exhaust heat exchanger.
This is very, very surprising to me given how poor the heat is in old VW's. Even my 914, with its tiny cabin doesn't heat very well.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
its hard to describe the feeling, the rush pushing a 911 to its limits and keeping it there.
My 2200 lb. 1973 911 has a 3.2 stuffed in the rear, and 23/31 T-bars and a short ring & pinion.

My local class has some competitors with national championships that I can't quite compete with yet. I could go trophy chasing in another class with the 944, but the 911 is just so much more fun, I'd rather be thrilled with third place in the 911 than take another first in the 944.
Old 01-23-2007, 08:48 AM
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Jim,
I regret not pulling myself out of the drivers seat in my 944 to ask for a ride in your car or Rick's. Maybe next time I am down near your "summer" home I can get on my knees and beg for a ride.
Your 3.6L swapped 911 was one of the coolest cars at the meet. It looked so nice from behind going through the corners.

I sent you an email about the dragon vids also.

Speedy
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Old 01-23-2007, 03:04 PM
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