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Rear Camber

Wondering if anyone knows of any kits or tricks to get more neg camber our of the rear on the 44's. I'm currently able to max out at -2 deg but I need more. My car is a track car and I am getting uneven wear on my tires, lots of wear on the outside. I have camber plates in the front but cant find any way to get more for the rear.

I also spoke with Lindsey Racing and they were not aware of any kits. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
Brian

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1989 944 Turbo Cup Replica
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:14 AM
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More tire pressure?
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:16 AM
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My tire pressure is already extremely high. I somehow need to tweak out more neg camber but Im not sure how.
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:21 AM
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What's your rear toe setting?
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:46 AM
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Might want to check the thrust angle. Sounds like you may have to much toe in.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:00 PM
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Lower Rear Ride height.
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Last edited by mlue; 05-10-2007 at 12:09 PM..
Old 05-09-2007, 04:19 PM
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Lowering the rear with the eccentric adjuster will provide some negative camber.
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Old 05-09-2007, 05:31 PM
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Dude what are your other specs??? If you running neg -2 and still getting alot of wear on the outside then something is fishy. Whats your suspension setup???? Stock??
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Old 05-09-2007, 07:36 PM
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Yeah, lower the car, and have you got uprated springs and bars?? If not, you need to...
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Old 05-10-2007, 07:16 AM
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The car is lowered already and I have upgraded to Koni Sport Shocks with 30mm Torsion bars, polygraphite bushings & 22mm adjustable sway bar. The toe setting is to spec. The car is only used for DE's and PCA Club Racing so the problem is with the rear camber. I need to get to -3 or -4 deg as I'm able to with camber plates in the front. Right now with the -2 deg, in corners my suspension is so stiff that the rear tires are rolling over onto the outer edge and wearing more quickly then the inside edge. I am running Victoracers but will be switching to Hoosiers and dont want to burn through tires because Hoosier's are expensive as we all know.

I was trying to find a simple solution but since the only adjustment is with the eccentric bolt I'm thinking there is no simple solution. Any hints or knowledge of kits would be great.
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Old 05-10-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by xupkid2 The car is lowered already and I have upgraded to Koni Sport Shocks with 30mm Torsion bars, polygraphite bushings & 22mm adjustable sway bar. The toe setting is to spec... I need to get to -3 or -4 deg as I'm able to with camber plates in the front. Right now with the -2 deg, in corners my suspension is so stiff that the rear tires are rolling over onto the outer edge and wearing more quickly then the inside edge.
I'm not familar with this level of suspension setup on a 944 but -2 degrees is alot of camber already it should not be wearing the tires to the degree you are describing, it may be not just one adjustmet to fix this problem but a combination of things.

Just throwing this out for discussion: You yourself said the suspension is extremely stiff, in addition to the static camber you currently have set at -2 degrees the suspension must also be compliant enough to take advantage of the natural camber gain built into the suspension geometry. Too stiff and their is not enough lean or roll, consequently there is no natural camber gain from the suspension geometry. As well, the tires must be matched to provide enough grip to work with this level of suspension. Meaning too low grip tires and stiff suspension will not allow the suspension to take a set and work as it should, hence you get a coning on the outside edge of the tire.
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Last edited by mlue; 05-10-2007 at 12:05 PM..
Old 05-10-2007, 12:00 PM
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Ah, OK, cool, I used to run this setup... since upgraded to 34mm rear bars.

You're going to want 2.5-3 deg rear neg camber. I'd start with 2.75, get some temps. Definitely more than you have, but not 4 - you'll scorch the insides and have nasty lockup on any serious braking. I'd recommend 2.75-3 for the front. Currently I'm running 3.0 front 2.5 rear.

You definitely need to lower the car. What's the current height to the rockers? How low are you willing to go? PS - lower is faster anyway!

Next step, once you get that alignment where it needs to be - you need a good pyrometer, and someone to take temps!!!

HTH...
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:21 AM
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That is the problem I have is that I can't get any more than -2 deg. Right now my car is at the lowest point it can go and still be aligned correctly. The wheel well in the rear is just below the top of the tire. How were you able to achieve -2.75 deg of camber. My eccentric bolt is maxed out.
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:24 AM
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Hrm, that doesn't make sense - didn't you just say you can't get it aligned where you want it??

When you say the eccentric is maxed - do you mean the height or the camber eccentric?

I can probably clear 3.5deg neg camber, maybe up to 4, in the rear, if I wanted... my car is 5.5" at the rockers (minus pinch seam on the 924). My tire is a bit above the wheel well edge, but that'll all depend on tire size anyway - I'm on 225/45/15 Hoosier R6's (boy do they stick!).
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:52 AM
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Sounds like our setup's height wise are about the same. The alignment itself is where I want it but the neg camber isnt. The shop that did my alignment said -2 was all they were able to get out of the rear and -1.5 for the front w/o camber plates. Did you alter anything in the rear to be able to get to -3.5?
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:58 AM
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Decidedly not. (edit/clarification - no, I didn't mod anything on the rear, just using the stock adjustment points)

Do you trust your shop? That much? I've done all my own alignments for many years now...

If your spring plate adjustment is maxed out, you may have to bite the bullet and reindex to get the adjustment you need. It doesn't seem to make sense, but yes, I have noticed a difference in the adjustment range based on where the height eccentric is, in its range.
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Last edited by 924RACR; 05-11-2007 at 10:09 AM..
Old 05-11-2007, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 924RACR
I've done all my own alignments for many years now...
Vaughan, I'd love to know how, you wouldn't happen to have a write up with pictures would ya.
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Old 05-11-2007, 03:22 PM
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Nope, but I've taught many. It requires the right tools; you must have a camber gauge, and either strings or toe plates (which I now have) to measure toe, not to mention a clean level floor and plenty of time (including time to do it more than once). You'll also need tool P221, which allows controlled adjustment of rear toe when adjusting rear camber.

Longacre racing, at http://www.longacreracing.com/, has these tools; if you're a track junkie, I do recommend getting them. Their toe plates are $60. However their camber gauges aren't cheap - start at $100. I got the far cheaper and more manual (and limited) bubble gauge style from Racer Parts Wholesale:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/align.htm

(1st one on the list - they also have an inexpensive but bulkier toe gauge)

The front is very easy, since it's just a Rabbit/Golf front - even in the later cars, its the same design with just different parts. Even without camber plates, it's fairly straightforward to adjust and not complicated. There's an affect on toe when adjusting camber, but you just go back and fix it with the tie rods.

The rear is a major PITA, no two ways about it. You must take your measurements, put it up in the air, make some adjustments to camber and toe, then put it back down, roll it, and see where you ended up. Takes quite a bit of practice and trial-and-error. The front two bolts (24mm and 36mm wrenches) adjust the ride heights; the rear 3 bolts (2 19mm lock bolts and the camber eccentric, takes a 27mm and is where the swaybar endlink bolts up) allow adjustment of camber and toe at the same time. Note of course that when you change camber, toe can be affected. Takes a lot of big wrenches, and be dayum sure to tighten everything down real good when complete, or you'll lose your settings once you start driving.

It gets even more fun when you throw in corner-weighting too; if you change the heights at either end, you will throw off your camber setting. Of course, then you go back and fix your camber, and at least at the rear, that throws off your cornerweights again! So a few iterations are required. When I get the corner weights close, I prefer to do final dial-in with the fronts, because those are less sensitive to the affect of camber adjustment on height (as compared to the rears).

Once you've done this once or twice, you'll develop a whole new motivation to stay off the curbs, since that often will trash your alignment settings!
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Old 05-12-2007, 05:42 AM
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Thanks for the info, I am looking forward to getting some of these tools and trying this out for myself.
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Old 05-12-2007, 07:58 PM
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You will need to reindex those torsion bars. I was only able to pull ~2 degrees camber with the spring plate maxed on my stock NA.

Have fun.


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Old 05-12-2007, 09:27 PM
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