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What spring/bar rating should I use for a street/track car?

I'm going to re-do the suspension on my '88 944 this Spring and need to decide what spring/bar ratings to use. The options are from 250-350 lbs. up front and 27-30mm for the torsion bars. If I max it out, will the car be intolerable on the street?

I currently do about 6 or 8 track days (3-4 events) per year. The rest is weekend, or sunny-day usage. I do not foresee converting this car into a 100% track car (it's too pretty!).

I can tolerate a very firm ride, but within reason.


Last edited by Potomac-Greg; 01-25-2008 at 09:34 AM..
Old 01-23-2008, 06:14 AM
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The 250 lb springs up front, and 27 mm Torsion bar in back would make a good street/track combination. You want to keep a balance with the front and back spring rates. Going stiffer in the front (300 lb) will induce a little more under-steer, which you may, or may not want.

A 30 mm Torsion bar in back should be balanced with 400-450 lb springs up front. This is our current race setup, and is probably too stiff for regular street use.

YMMV

good luck
JM
Old 01-23-2008, 07:47 AM
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Many thanks!!!
Old 01-23-2008, 08:40 AM
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Assuming you're on smooth, well chosen roads for pleasure driving (plus track usage), and not chugging through the daily commuter routes, I'd go for the stiffer option: 300lb/28mm, and lowered an inch or 1.5".

Check this out if you haven't already (and don't forget your sway bars!)

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/susp-15.htm
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmconner80 View Post
Assuming you're on smooth, well chosen roads for pleasure driving (plus track usage), and not chugging through the daily commuter routes, I'd go for the stiffer option: 300lb/28mm, and lowered an inch or 1.5".

Check this out if you haven't already (and don't forget your sway bars!)

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/susp-15.htm
I'm picking up a full package of springs, torsion bars, sway bars, struts and bushings. Available on "the other" ecommerce site. I wonder if Pelican would match the package?
Old 01-23-2008, 11:13 AM
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I have 250lb springs on my car along with konis shocks and 16inch rims so a slightly lower profile than stock. I really like the setup and have taken the car on multi hour drives and dont find it too harsh at all.

I dont know if Pelican would match the price but I would be worth asking them.
Old 01-23-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave L View Post
I have 250lb springs on my car along with konis shocks and 16inch rims so a slightly lower profile than stock. I really like the setup and have taken the car on multi hour drives and dont find it too harsh at all.

I dont know if Pelican would match the price but I would be worth asking them.
Thx. I'll see if Pelican can match.

I'm hoping to achieve a balanced car with minimal understeer. The "package" has dual Weltmeister sway bars in addition to the other stuff.
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1988 944 Guards Red (track/fun)
2002 C32 AMG (commute/fun)
Old 01-23-2008, 12:59 PM
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What about kw coilover variant 3? or jrz if you have the big bucks?

Last edited by jasonlp; 01-24-2008 at 10:00 PM..
Old 01-24-2008, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonlp View Post
What about kw coilover variant 3? or jrz if you have the big bucks?
I'm trying to keep my annual investment in the car lower than what I paid for it! KWs are very nice stuff (I had V1 in my Audi A6), but I need to be a bit more economical for the 944. I've got a list of "wants" (seats, bars, harnesses, steering wheel) that goes on and on.
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:51 AM
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The koni all the way =)
weltmeister springs

250 or 275 lb springs
27 or 28mm torsion bar
front/rear 968 M030 sways, with the rear sway at its tightest setting

or

300 or 325lb spring
29mm or 30mm torsion
968 mo30 front sway
22mm adjustable rear sway

Last edited by jasonlp; 01-25-2008 at 07:18 AM..
Old 01-25-2008, 07:09 AM
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or even the bilstien escort cups package on lindsay racing or paragon

http://www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LR&Category_Code=944SUSESCORT

http://www.*****************.com/product_p/bilstein_escort_cup_944.htm

Last edited by jasonlp; 01-25-2008 at 07:30 AM..
Old 01-25-2008, 07:15 AM
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http://www.*****************.com/product_p/koni8742conv.htm
Old 01-25-2008, 07:35 AM
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Interesting. So, compared to the "Spec" package offered by Paragon ( http://www.*****************.com/product_p/944spec-3.htm ), the Escort Cup (for a bit more cash) lacks the weltmeister sway bars, but offers a more adjustable package and easier install (assuming I do not change sway bars, and I just buy the rears as "boosters" to the OEM torsion bar). For calculating effective spring rate, what is the OEM diameter of the rear bar on the 944?

Any thoughts on whether I could get away with OEM sway bars (spaghetti) with the Escort Cup package? (Because if I need to add sways, it gets pricier.) Escort Cup also appears to be VERY firm stuff. They recommend 700-800 lbs on the springs. That's pretty stiff!
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Last edited by Potomac-Greg; 01-25-2008 at 09:30 AM..
Old 01-25-2008, 08:01 AM
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My car has bilstein turbo cup suspension, from what i have read it is similar to escort cup but stiffer, and i think it has oem sways. The car was tracked a few times with this setup and i have never herd any complaints.

I'm also in the process of figuring out what my replacement will be
Old 01-25-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonlp View Post
My car has bilstein turbo cup suspension, from what i have read it is similar to escort cup but stiffer, and i think it has oem sways. The car was tracked a few times with this setup and i have never herd any complaints.

I'm also in the process of figuring out what my replacement will be
Thanks. That's good info. I would love to avoid changing my torsion bars.

This raises another question. If I use the coilovers as a booster to the OEM torsion bars, I obviously cannot drop the ride height in the rear unless I re-set the rear torsion bars. But how do I avoid ending up with a higher rear ride height (without re-setting the rear torsion bars)?

(PS: Jason, why are you replacing the turbo cup suspension?)
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Last edited by Potomac-Greg; 01-25-2008 at 10:01 AM..
Old 01-25-2008, 09:50 AM
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At this point i've moved over to rennlist =) if you don't know you will now, very large porsche community including us the specialty crew owners

I posted your question, here is the link

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?p=5026720#post5026720
Old 01-25-2008, 10:35 AM
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the suspension is 20 years old =D and it really squats when floor it and there is better tech out there now
The car is 22, ie 86

Last edited by jasonlp; 01-25-2008 at 10:40 AM..
Old 01-25-2008, 10:36 AM
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reno808
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"ahhahahahahah THIS HAPPENED TO MEEEEE and its high right now lol. ight their 2 things you can do one order 6in or 7 inch springs i have 8 inch which is why my car is jacked up so i used the encentric bolt and it lowered it a bit but i am still higher than stock. and/or you can use the encentric bolt but not that much help just order 7 or 6in spring. Just remember you can only move a 1/2 in down with the encentric bolt if i am not mistaken. If you want really want to get real close to stock get a 7 inch and play with the encentric. I am going to order new springs this month coming up and i think i might play with the t-bars"

Old 01-25-2008, 10:47 AM
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