Help With Head

Vicious · 02-13-2008, 06:21 PM

hey everyone just started to work on my 83 944 thats been sitting for a few years, pulled the head to check for damage and noticed one of the intake valve seats has come loose and is holding the valve from going all the way back into the head. has anyone ever had this happen? and is there a way to remove the valve spring when its being held slightly compressed due to the valve being held out? heres a couple pics to help if you dont understand the explanation

many944s · 02-14-2008, 06:30 AM

WOW!
I assume the marks on the face of the valve are from trying to compress the spring with a "press" style spring remover... Is there any space between the coils on the spring? There is another spring compressor tool that grabs the coils at the base of the spring and compresses it towards the keepers without having to push on the face of the valve.

If there isn't any space to get that tool in there, I would take a couple of blocks of wood with shop towels on them and place them under the head in a shop press. slowly press down on the valve stem to compress the spring enough to guide the valve and seat back home. THOUGH as I think about it, is the valve guide shot? or is the valve bent?

-Nick

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

I would do the same as Nick. Try to press the seat back in there. Without doing that, it's going to be hard to compress that spring enough to get the keepers off. You may have to wind up using a die grinder with a cutoff wheel to cut the spring and/or valve to get it off but even that will be hard to get in there. Looks like it might be a long process. I guess the other part to address is if the valve seat wasn't tight enough to stay in there in the first place, you are going to have to figure out a way to keep the new one in there so it doesn't do this again. Might be able to displace enough metal with a centerpunch and hammer to hold it but I don't know if it will for sure. Might be better to pick up a new rebuilt head.

legoland951 · 02-14-2008, 09:27 AM

I always take my head to the machine shop whenever its off. Its enough work to replace the head not to pay the $100 to have them resurface/valve job etc. I am sure they can get that seat back in.

onZedge · 02-14-2008, 03:39 PM

hacksaw

Vicious · 02-14-2008, 03:59 PM

thanks for all the suggestions, i htink ill just check to see if i can find a good used head i called a local machine shop and they quoted me 350 to get it all done. im rather confident i cant find a used one cheaper lol.

legoland951 · 02-14-2008, 04:43 PM

My machine shop charges $100 to $200 tops. A use head is an uncertainty at best. Don't risk wasting your labor and a gasket set. Its not worth it.

Vicious · 02-14-2008, 05:48 PM

i guess ill call a few more shops then. he had quoted me for valve removal and reinstall plus the machining since the valve seat is slightly messed up from something havent figured out what caused it yet.

earlr85944 · 03:50 AM

Hey, I just sent you a PM, I have a good used head that you can use! Seats are in place and tight, take it to the machine shop and have them do the prep work on it. If you want to know if its good before buying it I can have my machine shop: Thomas Machine in Deer Park do the work before shipping(clean, surface and pressure test) they charge @ $65 for this.

earlr85944 · 02-15-2008, 05:53 AM

yes there could be some problems, especially if the car sat for a year or more:
fuel-fuel goes bad it tends to varnish and can gum up and disable the fuel pump or injectors
why was the car parked in the 1st place?
block pistons, just look for deep, scratches and scoring
drain the oil, and the last of it into a glass and check for metal contamination if you are not familiar with the engine. also check for signs of antifreeze in the oil
timing belts need to be replaced if they are of unknown age
new head gasket will be needed, the whole head gasket set is @ $100
just the head gasket alone is @ $50 and its not reusable
getting a good functioning head to go onto the car is @ $150
I have bought and sold a few, never had a problem, it would be the easiest way to go in your case as long as the head is good. just bolt it on and go, no swapping valves etc. If all your valves are good you then havve time to find a good used head core (plenty around thanks to our timing belt design\PO problem) and swap out the valves, now you have a spare!
installing is basically the reversal of removing other than tensioning the timing belt, thats a whole other can of worms, if you never done it research and get help if possible, too loose there go your valves, too tight you can break a belt or blow a roller bearing, there go the valves again.
best case :
used head $100 -150
headgasket \set $ 50-100
timing belts $50
oil, filter ,antifreeze:$40
drain fuel and use fresh $20

Another argument would be do it once and do it right.
It would cost 3-4 time this to do it right but in this case it maybe a learning experience so just: "get er done"

Vicious · 02-15-2008, 05:37 PM

ok so after much work and a little bit of ingenuity i finally worked the valve ou and removed it and its seat. lookin at this do you guys think this head is worth salvageing? i can buy a oversized valve seat and pray that it doesnt have to be machine bigger than that. im still waitin on my local porsche expert to call me back with some figures for re-porting that valve