'84 944 n/a oil into coolant?

Heeler944 · 03-26-2008, 08:44 AM

Hey everybody. This is my very first furom that I have ever used. I am hoping that I will get some good helpful hints. I am headed off to Korea and want to get this fixed before I go. Anyways, I have a few questions for the porsche gurru. I am bought a 1984 944 n/a, with 46,000 miles on her. The bad thing is it is getting OIL INTO THE COOLANT. Now from the research that I have done, it could be head gasket or it could be oil cooler. Am I on the right track, I don't know! It overheats when it idles and doesn't overheat when in gear. I am so confused. I can do this work myself but I am not trying to replace stuff that doesn't really need to be replaced.
The car has sat in a garage most of its life, under a cover. This car is in immaculate shape. It has no rust and everything is original so I know that it is a good buy. Any information would be greatful. Thanks

JayG · 03-26-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heeler944

Hey everybody. This is my very first furom that I have ever used. I am hoping that I will get some good helpful hints. I am headed off to Korea and want to get this fixed before I go. Anyways, I have a few questions for the porsche gurru. I am bought a 1984 944 n/a, with 46,000 miles on her. The bad thing is it is getting OIL INTO THE COOLANT. Now from the research that I have done, it could be head gasket or it could be oil cooler. Am I on the right track, I don't know! It overheats when it idles and doesn't overheat when in gear. I am so confused. I can do this work myself but I am not trying to replace stuff that doesn't really need to be replaced.
The car has sat in a garage most of its life, under a cover. This car is in immaculate shape. It has no rust and everything is original so I know that it is a good buy. Any information would be greatful. Thanks

If it overheats as well and/or has an erratic idle then tis head gasket. Since you say the rest of the car is in great shape then after the head gasket, you'll be in great shape for a while.

Heeler944 · 03-26-2008, 09:01 AM

Is there anyway to check that it is the head gasket? I am not trying to replace anything that doesn't need replacen. If I do have to replace gasket, is it a difficult job? Most everything in the coolant system except the water pump has been replaced before I bought her.

rmconner80 · 03-26-2008, 09:06 AM

My advice:

1) stop running the car
2) replace the oil cooler seal + oil pressure relief valve.
3) flush your coolant to get all the oil out, replace with a 50/50 phosphate free coolant/water mixture; bleed off all air
4) change your oil and filter

Start it up and see if the problem is fixed. This test will determine if the problem is the head gasket or the oil cooler seal.

It very well could be the head gasket, but you want to be sure before getting in there.

earlr85944 · 03-26-2008, 09:20 AM

do a compression check, most of the time when a HG goes you will see a drop in 1 or 2 of the cyls

On a nice clean car like you say, why not do it all now and you will know where you are at:

cooler seals
HG set
waterpump
timing belt and rollers

Heeler944 · 03-26-2008, 09:27 AM

How much would all of this cost if I replaced everything at once.

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

Well, I agree with the stop running the car part...and the cleaning of both oil and coolant systems.

First of all, you are on the right track with regards to the problem. Oil in the coolant is usually oil cooler seals or head gasket. Usually oil in coolant is oil cooler seals. Blown head gaskets do cause overheating but usually in the reverse order from what you are seeing. If it overheats at higher rpms (meaning more high temp compresson gases are placed in the cooling system) then that is an indication of a blown head gasket. Usually at an idle the head gasket problem won't be as much of an issue. Here is what I would do to tell: Run a compression and leak down test. That will USUALLY find a head gasket problem. If you see no problems there, then change the oil cooler seals and see what happens. They are inexpensive to change and probably the best place to start and from what I'm hearing I would bet that's the problem.

As already mentioned, it's important to clean both the cooling system and crankcase extremely well. If you have oil in the cooling system, it definitely will not work well which is probably the problem with your cooling system. If it were mine, I would clean both areas, replace the oil cooler seals and go from there.

Tidybuoy · 11:00 AM

I agree with the compression test & leakdown test. These are easy to do and inexpensive. You can buy the tools for about $125 or you can take it to a shop and have this done fairly cheaply. This will help you determine the head gasket issue.

Be sure to read up on the two jobs (Head Gasket & Oil Cooler seals). to do the oil seals you need a gasket kit and a special alignment tool that you will want to have before starting the project.

Ckarks Garage is a good source for maintenance projects http://www.clarks-garage.com/

Vern

Heeler944 · 03-26-2008, 10:12 AM

Thanks everybody. I have found out a lot of info with just a few replys.

earlr85944 · 01:20 PM

btw: quick and easy test: fill the coolant resevoir a little highr than usual so you can actually see the water level
leave the cap off and start the car, as it warms up if its the HG you will see a steady stream of bubbles, just be carefull as you may get some overflow especially if you goose the motor

doing it all at once: @$550
125 hg set
150 belt rollers
175 pump
$ misc, antifreeze, oil, beer

if you have to skimp, let the pump go if it's not original, looks good and spins free

Bottom line- a test with an exhaust gas analyzer will pinpoint a bad HG if there are fumes in the cooling system. Ive seen oil in the water and water in the oil in either case.

aj951 · 03-26-2008, 01:39 PM

If you do the HG, make sure you budget for the tools to properly tension the timing belt. Those will run between approx. $200 and $600 depending on which tools you choose to go with. Some of the more experienced guys just use their thumb or the Kricket tool (which are low cost alternatives, free and approx $10 at NAPA respectively) but I don't recommend them if you don't have the experience. Do a forum search on timing and balance belt tensioning and you will find all of the options to choose from.

Good luck and welcome to the forum. You will find plenty of quality help here.

A.J.

Heeler944 · 03-26-2008, 05:57 PM

what exactly are belt rollers? And which is more costly to repair HG or the oil cooler?

earlr85944 · 03-26-2008, 06:03 PM

they guide the timing belt and balance belt.
Its more costly to replace a part thats not bad!

Seriously, the oil cooler is less, under $100 and thats with buying the alignment tool, new oil , filter and antifreeze and seal kit.

HondaDustR · 03-26-2008, 08:16 PM

Yeah, the oil cooler seals are known to go bad, especially on the early cars. The seals can be had for about $35 if you buy them separately here at Pelican. It's a pretty easy job if you can get the exhaust headers off first. If not, it's still doable, but extremely difficult to reassemble everything properly aligned, since room is very limited and there will be a whole bunch of parts and seals that need to be positioned just right when it goes back together. And the worst is getting that first bolt started! Mostly a test of patience and dexterity...

When was the last time the cam belt was replaced. It should be done ASAP if you aren't positively sure. If it's older than a couple years, or has 30,000 miles on it, it needs to go.

Slam · 03-27-2008, 10:10 AM

Since we're on the subject, who knows the torque specs for the oil-cooler-housing-to-block bolts? I've had my cooler off a few times (not difficult even with the exhaust header in place - just need five knuckles in each finger) and have not found those specs. I'd figure about 12 to 15 lbs?